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Another injury signals our destiny: is it realistic to bench Amen ever again?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Mathloom, Jan 7, 2025.

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Who sits if Brooks/Amen are playing well when Jabari returns?

  1. 38%-shooting Brooks

  2. Budding Star Amen

  3. 6'11 Jabari who was hitting 40% of his 3's and playing really good defense

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    We don’t need Brooks but we definitely need someone to give us 25-30 minutes of exactly what FVV does. Safe, reliable off ball basketball at a position where he’s our only good defender if Amen is guarding the best wing. He’s a reliable off ball shooter too. Can’t ask for more he’s just an average PG.

    Would keep him at $25m in the summer with no guarantee to start but honestly we may be able to fill that spot for under $15m. Could acquire Gabe Vincent or something instead.

    Brooks is the one who stands out. Just can’t play fast.
     
  2. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Man, it is amazing how many times you've said the Rockets weren't going to make the playoffs. It is amazing how well FVV and Amen play well together and that Amen has developed great while playing with FVV despite your view that FVV was holding Amen back.

    I will say Brooks may not fit with the current starters now. He's still a rotation player. Cam is a bigger factor on Dillon staying a Rocket than Amen.

    The current starting lineup is not playing defense. I don't believe Jabari is a better defender than Amen, but someone has got to help Brooks in getting out to shooters.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Rockets forever!
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    FVV ultimately will be the one sitting, next year.

    DD
     
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  4. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    Talk to me again after the next five games.
     
  5. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    What's done is done guys.

    Dillon Brooks is taking the fight to Jabari admirably but Brooks' hot shooting nights further cement the theory that we need a shooter at that position (PF). Can't wait for Jabari to complete the puzzle.
     
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  6. amaru

    amaru Member

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    Should be Brooks but it will likely be Smith for political reasons.
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

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    The lineup with Amen in it seems to work much better with Brooks than with Jabari for some reason. Doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever, but historically, the lineup stats are clear.
     
  8. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Very different circumstances if you ask me. If Sengun/Jabari/Amen/Green/FVV have played together it's been without:

    - FVV taking a bit of a backseat, allowing Green and Amen to transform the pace.
    - Jabari's shot improving (40% in his last 20+ games).
    - Chemistry.

    If I'm being honest? Brooks is such a warrior I wouldn't even be surprised if from the bench Brooks head to head outplays Jabari. I would still insist on developing Jabari there. The main reason is because outside of head to head, there's a semi-invisible impact om Sengun/Amen/Green's post ups and drives. I think we are undervaluing the impact of improving their opportunities.

    I think the gap between Brooks and Jabari is minuscule compared to what it means if 10% of postups/drives got easier. I think there's more points to be scavenged in the latter scenario.
     
  9. AroundTheWorld

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    I would continue to let Brooks start and give Jabari the opportunity to earn it back. Jabari was handed the starting spot from day one. If he has "it", he will earn it back, like Alpi did. If not, keep going with Brooks. Eventually, if nothing else, some injuries will open up an opportunity for him anyway.

    From the Rockets' perspective, it's a great problem to have.

    It can also be done in a face-saving way because Bari was injured. It would be much more disruptive to suddenly send Brooks to the bench when we are doing so great.
     
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  10. HoustonSportsAddict

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    I think either Jalen Green or Brooks will end up sitting. But if its Brooks then Green will have an extremely short leash. If he plays soft like he did yesterday then he will get pulled and likely end up losing even more minutes to Brooks/Tari/Cam. One problem yesterday was that Green was getting locked up on offense and he was getting barbequed by Jaylen Brown on defense.

    We have way too much wing talent and I think if Jalen Green can't figure out a way to stop being inconsistent he will probably end up being dealt.
     
  11. HoustonSportsAddict

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    Idk though because the stats show we dropped significantly in defensive rating and rebound ratings ever since Jabari went down. Having a 6.10 power forward who can rebound and spread the floor would help Sengun/Amen out significantly.
     
  12. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

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    as much as i'd love to bench Brooks you just can't do it right now. Jabari will have to earn the job back...

    but I think there's actually a good chance Jabari starts to thrive from the bench. I'm really excited to see how we look when we send out Jabari-Eason-Cam on other second units. we do need a creator for this unit, a back-up PG becomes even more valuable.
     
  13. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    My only concern is they can weasel out of it, severely demotivating Jabari:

    If Jabari doesn't do well, there will at least be some talk of him being a better starter.
    If he does do well, they will say he works well off the bench.

    Incentives are not aligned. I'm not liking it but I acknowledge Jabari will probably need 10-15 games to get his shooting touch back.
     
  14. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

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    I think only true de-motiving factor would be to give Jabari a low-ball extension number. He's clearly a long term starter for this club for many years to come. We're only talking for this year and maybe half the season next year.
     
  15. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Uff honestly I'm not willing to do that for Dillon Brooks. If he's starting over Jabari in preseason, I'm rioting. Jabari and his agent know his value will go down, that's an ugly move on a hardworking kid.

    The kids have earned it. I think it would really suck if you're a bunch of young hard working kids and you were told it's a meritocracy and when it came time for the kids to take a step up - we just kept someone else in because of optics or politics? We asked these kids for an A-, they delivered an A+ and still they don't get to realize the rewards of that? Personally not my style.

    Honestly I don't want that culture in our locker room for something we don't need (Brooks is our 3rd best defende at the SF position). For Durant I'd ask Jabari to come off the bench. For Brooks, imo he needs to outshoot Jabari in volume and % to earn that spot. I think Jabari will win back the spot quickly with shooting and big man defense. We will need his defense at the 4/5 end of games. Ime cares about his defense more than Dillon Brooks and the defense is sliding since Jabari went down.
     
    #135 Mathloom, Jan 28, 2025
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2025
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  16. O-dawg

    O-dawg Member
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    Amen gives you everything (and more) defensively that Dillon gives you but offensively Dillon's 3pt shooting this year has been pretty consistent. It would be tough for me as a coach to ask Dillon, a guy that has done everything that you've asked him to and improved his 3pt shot, to go to the bench but I would start Amen over Dillon at SF and have Jabari at his normal PF spot.
     
  17. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    I get the arguments for why starter status matters and maybe they do make somewhat of a difference--but I'm still not losing sleep about who comes off the bench and who starts, as long as Amen keeps playing 35+ minutes per game. (That being the key thing, and I don't see any chance he doesn't after what he's shown.)

    In any case, Amen Thompson since Jabari got injured:

    10 games
    19.2 points per game
    11.5 rebounds per game (ludicrous numbers for a perimeter player)
    4.4 assists per game
    2.2 steals per game
    1.2 blocks per game
    57.4% field goal percentage

    Factoring in his overall defensive value, those are all-star numbers. Coming from 21-year-old who has only played in 104 NBA games, most of those being limited minutes off the bench.

    This kid is something truly special.
     
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  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    It's a really unique situation and honestly can't be looked at outside of position. Amen is the starter at SF. He's won that spot by outperforming all. He gets to pick his position, that's how good he is.

    Comes down to who we think is the best PF. They've all performed well, so someone who performed well is going to have to sit. I think it's easy to let things slide and avoid confrontation, but that's not the Dillon or Udoka way. I think let's get it over with and if he wants a trade it's fine, his on/off is no biggie for us we can acquire someone else who'll be a bigger presence off the bench.

    The priority is the core AFAIC. Brooks' feelings come second. If we swap them and the team doesn't do so well, you can always swap it back. Happens all the time in the NBA.
     
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  19. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    My first thought is that Jabari-Eason-Cam lineups might get rough even if it is very switchable defensively. I checked lineup data to see how those three have played together. They have not played together at all this season or last.
     
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  20. HoustonSportsAddict

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    I think Jalen Green sitting is a possibility if he continues to be inconsistent. He’s the only starter that we have that isn’t top 35 in defensive win shares and offensively he is shooting worse than Jabari and Brooks from the three point line.

    Or atleast Jalen will start over Brooks but will have an extremely short lease. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me if we sit Jabari. Our defensive rating has dropped from 1st to 13th over this stretch with him injured and our rebounding has dropped as well. We also need floor spacers for Sengun and Amen.
     

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