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Another 'Christian' thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rhester, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    This seemed a little strange to me?
    What do you think, shut it down or let them meet?

    Maybe there is more to it?

    link

    San Diego News

    Couple: County Trying To Stop Home Bible Studies
    POSTED: 5:31 pm PDT May 25, 2009
    UPDATED: 1:45 pm PDT May 28, 2009

    SAN DIEGO -- A local pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a San Diego County official, who then threatened them with escalating fines if they continued to hold Bible studies in their home, 10News reported.
    Attorney Dean Broyles of The Western Center For Law & Policy was shocked with what happened to the pastor and his wife.
    Broyles said, "The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'"

    The county employee notified the couple that the small Bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of County regulations, according to Broyles.
    Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit" -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars.
    "For churches and religious assemblies there's big parking concerns, there's environmental impact concerns when you have hundreds or thousands of people gathering. But this is a different situation, and we believe that the application of the religious assembly principles to this Bible study is certainly misplaced," said Broyles.
    News of the case has rapidly spread across Internet blogs and has spurred various reactions.
    Broyles said his clients have asked to stay anonymous until they give the county a demand letter that states by enforcing this regulation the county is violating their First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion.
    Broyles also said this case has broader implications.
    "If the county thinks they can shut down groups of 10 or 15 Christians meeting in a home, what about people who meet regularly at home for poker night? What about people who meet for Tupperware parties? What about people who are meeting to watch baseball games on a regular basis and support the Chargers?" Broyles asked.
    Broyles and his clients plan to give the County their demand letter this week.
    If the County refuses to release the pastor and his wife from obtaining the permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.
     
  2. Master Baiter

    Master Baiter Contributing Member

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    That is ridiculous, leave them alone.
     
  3. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    Dumb law, but it's not like they are singling out christians.
     
  4. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

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    Sounds like somebody with ulterior motives.

    I would think a great deal of Churches in every city have small groups or Bible studies at various members' homes.
     
  5. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    There is nothing wrong with book clubs.
     
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  6. BigBenito

    BigBenito Member

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    Continuing my belief that all people are ****, my first assumption of the case: an officer did act improperly, but Jones exacerbated the issue by making a mountain out of a mole hill.

    I know if I was a neighbor, I'd get annoyed if people repeatedly parked in front of my house... I'd call the cops eventually too, even if I had no ground to stand on. **** you for impeding my ability to park at my home.
     
  7. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    This is a good point.

    Over the years I have been involved in neighborhood Bible studies and I have been very concerned about parking in front of other peoples homes and taking up their space.

    We have often asked permission or changed the bible meeting so that the parking wasn't a problem for other people.
     
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Yeah, I don't see how the county has any leg to stand on and are just going to get themselves into trouble. Having 15 people over is a ubiquitous event. If there's some parking violation, you can write tickets. Otherwise, they're interfering with rights to assemble and right of religion.
     
  9. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

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    There has to be more to it than this. I just don't see the reward for enforcing such a trivial ordinance against a group of people notorious for crying religious discrimination every chance they get.
     
  10. IROC it

    IROC it Contributing Member

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    Do Boy Scout and book club, or even Avon sales meetings get treated this way in San Diego County? Surely they have similar numbers at their get-togethers.



    I wonder.


    I have a good friend, a few actually that live there, I'll have to see what they've heard locally.


    I would HOPE that there are other things at play here...


    Although, we recently had a women in our community threaten to call the building inspector to shut our church down because we didn't mow the yard to her liking. We got a certified letter and all that... which was all for naught as we had the yard tended to as soon as water was no longer standing... So who knows?

    Some people just hate life, I guess.
     
  11. Lynus302

    Lynus302 Contributing Member

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    Ridiculous. What they do in their own home is their own business.
     
  12. JeopardE

    JeopardE Contributing Member

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    It doesn't matter. The county law is indubitably unconstitutional if it directly impinges upon their basic rights to religious assembly, regardless of what other groups may be affected. If they're worried about a parking nuisance, then they should institute a parking ordinance and call it that. The fact that the county specifically told them that they were violating a municipal law by practicing Christianity is an outrage. This one shouldn't last five minutes in a federal court.
     
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  13. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    By law, clearly not, if what they are doing has further impacts to the community...

    The question here, imo, isn't whether this should be shut down or not. That seems fairly black and white. If something is happening in violation of law/permit/usage allowance, etc., then it is perfectly within the right of the county to shut it down.

    The question here IS, is this specifically targeted at this one group because of the religious impact, which certainly would be ridiculous and set a very very very bad precedent.
     
  14. JeopardE

    JeopardE Contributing Member

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    Exactly. The problem here is, if we are to believe the allegations of the pastor (and it's hard not to), the county specifically queried them about specific actions identified with religious practice, and told them that they had to pay hefty fees to be allowed to practice religion upon their own property.

    If it's just a case of "you're blocking the street and making too much noise", then this is a non-story.
     
  15. BigBenito

    BigBenito Member

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    http://www.10news.com/news/19585458/detail.html

    I'm assuming the hit involved someone not stopping after? Not sure why you would call the cops otherwise. I'm not saying the person purposefully hit and ran; it was probably some old lady who had no idea she hit something. (Yeah, I said it... old people can't drive for ****. That or it was someone texting. Oh dear god, we have to keep old people from texting. The horror!)
     
  16. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    why should we believe the pastor? how often do you hear whining by christians complaining that god is being taken out of this country whenever there are random debates about school prayer, etc., even though nearly every high school football game i've ever been to started with a prayer and every junior high/elementary school in my vicinity is home to various churches on sundays. remember the whole war on christmas crap spewed by fox news? please.
     
  17. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    My next door neighbor who I am good friends with have a bible study every week and its sometimes annoying since cars are parked right up to my driveway which makes getting into my garage a pain sometimes. I imagine its about 15-20 people. I understand having to obtain a permit because neighbors don't want people having 100 people at their house every week. However, I don't know how this could be constitutional especially with the high cost of obtaining a permit.
     
  18. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    I think jeoparde has a good point, RM95/groogrexxything.

    If it's an issue pertaining to the nuisance of having x number of people parked on a neighborhood street, call it that. That's rational and totally understandable.

    Restricting the right to assembly/worship is not the way to go about it. That's illegal.
     
  19. BigBenito

    BigBenito Member

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    Rocketman was saying that the Christians have been calling wolf a lot recently. So, why believe this pastor more, just because he's a pastor?

    At least, that is how I interpreted it. If he didn't say that... I am!
     
  20. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    One could certainly say the same thing about cops and beureucrats.
     

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