I'm all for gratuitous sex but it would be nice if Kim's story line was remotely relavent. Let's see...Kim's a babysitter for an abusive husband that eventually kills his wife. Kim is a suspect and evades the law. She then runs into a guy living alone in the woods. He eventually lets her go and then she goes to a convenience store where she is held hostage. How is this remotely relavent to a terrorist plot to detonate a nuclear bomb and government officials trying to start a war?
Last season, I too saw many episodes/parts that could have been cut, but I think the producers and execs wanted to keep '24' really 24 hours (including commercials). Would the show be better if it was 20 hours. I think so, but you know, that's not 24.
Season 2 is almost better than Season 1 for me. Very good plot going right now. Best show on TV right now... How the hell is Jack still moving after that torture?
$$$!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!$$$ Tonight's episode was one of the more "mellow" ones I've seen. There was very little action, but it didn't really matter. The scene with the president under trial is precisely the reason I love the show so much. Taking a rare Government situation that I would never be able to personally witness, and making it seem so authentic and detailed that I feel I have a window into how events would actually unfold. I think Dennis Haysbert does an incredible job as David Palmer. He should be nominated for an Emmy.
$$$Potential Spoilers$$$$ I haven't watched tonight's episode yet all the way through (I was watching it and taping it and then I had some visitors), but I don't understand the way President Palmer handles the invoking of the 25th Amendment. If the VP came to me via video screen and noted that he and the cabinet had been meeting to remove me from office, I would quickly get my letter to the President Pro Tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House noting that I am able to discharge the duties of the office and let the Congress decide my fate, assuming the Cabinet and VP still wants to go along and try the removal. The chances are that the Congress wouldn't remove me from office. And the chances are that the VP would back off once it became a public issue. The populace would probably not take kindly to an attempted coup by the Veep regardless of what has exploded where. I know we wouldn't have felt comfortable watching Dick Cheney remove GWB from office on September 11th regardless of whether the Consitutiton provides a kind-of mechanism to legally do so. I would also bet that the Congress would immediately convene and pretty well immediately vote on whether to remove the President from office. Even though they Constitutionally have three weeks, I seriously doubt they'd take that long, especially in a time of crisis when overthrowing the President would only cause more chaos.
$$$SPOILERS$$$ Okay, I've watched it now, and it amazes me that with all those top government officials in the room, nobody bothered to actually read the 25th Amendment before placing the President under arrest. It was good television, but their political science was a good bit off. First off, the VP and the Cabinet has to transmit their letter to the President Pro Tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House before the VP becomes Acting President, according to the Amendment. I didn't see that happen, so the VP was not Acting President yet when he ordered Palmer under arrest (or placed in a holding cell, as it were). 2. The President doesn't have to wait 4 days to appeal. He can do so immediately by transmitting a letter to the President Pro Tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House. At that moment, he becomes President again. After that, the VP and the Cabinet have 4 days to once again say the President isn't fit to serve. At that point, the Congress takes up the issue. They then have 48 hours to meet on the issue and 21 days to decide. It then takes a 2/3 majority of both Houses of Congress to determine that the President is unfit and unable to discharge his duties. This episode made it look too easy to remove the President from office. Plus, I don't think they'd do the whole Oath of Office thing for the Acting President.
<b>Section 4 of the 25th Ammendment</b> Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principle officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, I'll just speculate for the fun of it, but don't you think the Vice President would have already prepared a letter and possibly even explained the situation to Pro Tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House, so that when the Vote goes through it would IMMEDIATELY take effect? The letter just seems like a formality. It doesn't even sound like the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House have to read the letter before the VP can become acting president. It just says the letter has to be transmitted. The text referring to the "four days" is almost frighteningly vague, but I think the show's interpretation could arguably be valid. It says the president can send an appeal letter and he can regain his powers, unless the Senate sends a letter arguing aginst it. However, it does not say the president will <b>immediately</b> regain his powers. Reading the text, my interpretation is that the executive department/cabinet has four days to produce another letter (?) explaining that the president is unfit for duty. If they do not provide that letter by the fourth day, <i>then</i> the president will resume his position. If they do produce the letter by the fourth day, which I assume they would want to stall as long as possible, then there will be a hearing in Congress. I couldn't quite figure out if the Cabinet had to send two letters or just one, because both letters it describes appear to be identical. So, another possible interpretation is that once Congress receives the first letter from the Cabinet and the President's appeal, they could immediately begin the hearing, which would still take some time. However, the Amendment states the Vice President immediately gets power, and the only way for the president to get it back would be through a congressional hearing. I don't see it say anywhere that the president will immediately get all his powers back just by simply sending a hand-written letter to the leaders of Congress. Which is a good thing when you think about it. I mean, what if the president really was crazy? Bottom line, I think all it would take is a majority cabinet vote to remove the president for a short period of time. Whether that period of time only last four days or lasts long enough for Congress to hold a hearing, I'm not sure. However, in this situation, all the VP would need is a couple of hours to authorize a military strike. Pretty frightening stuff, not that I think it could ever really happen. And I've just learned more about the 25th Amendment that I ever thought possible, or neccesary for that matter.
It says the President immediately reassumes his position once he transmits his letter unless the second letter is sent, at which time the congress would decide. But it sure doesn't say that the President can be locked up and forced to wait four days before transmitting his letter. The only way I think it would work is if the Speaker and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate were also involved in the effort to remove the President - something that wasn't said outright on the show, but certainly would not be out of the question. But I think they should've mentioned that, or at least referred to it. But I think they should've said that the President could have his appeal hearing in front of Congress in 48 hours (how long Congress has to convene to decide the matter), and make the assumption that all the letters from both the President and the VP/Cabinet get transmitted immediately. The Amendment seems clear that the 4 days refers to the VP/Cabinet letter, not to the President's letter. And even if a second letter wasn't required, (it could just be one letter required but a four day window mentioned in cases where the President tries to reassume his duties after signing them away himself) the reference should've been to the 48 hours Congress has to convene to start to decide the matter, which would still be enough time, in the storyline, to get accomplished what the VP wants accomplished. Of course, in the real world, the VP would also likely need a majority of the Supreme Court, as they'd likely issue an immediate injunction the second the President asked for it while they interpreted the exact meaning of the Amendment (including what constitutes a President being unable to discharge the duties of the office).
The things is, it doesn't say <i>immediately reassumes</i>. It just says "he shall resume the powers" <b>provided</b> the cabinet does not respond in four days. I don't take that as immediately getting his position back. For the president to just be able to send a letter and get all of his power back would make the whole purpose of the Amendment pretty weak, don't you think? Especially if we were in the middle of a disastrous situation. I still think there is nothing stopping a Vice President from assuming presidential power for at least a short period of time, provided he gets the vote of the majority of the Cabinet - no matter how quickly the President appeals the decision. I concede the part about being locked up, which reamins to be seen, but I can definitely see the President having to be monitored around the clock. If he is supposedly unfit to perform his duties, you don't want him completely free to continue communication with other Government officials and give orders. As for the four days, it just depends on how you're interpreting it. I don't think the President would get back his position until after the Cabinet was given four days to respond to the President's Appeal. So in that case, the President can certainly send the letter, but it's not going to really be recognized until after four days are up. However, I realize your interpreting that aspect differently. Why would that matter though? The Amendment doesn't say that those two have to really approve anything. Just fax 'em the letter and move along. Possibly, but I think that would still mean the V.P. would be President for those 48 hours. Okay, so I guess we agree on that. Damn you! Bringin' the "real world" into it and rendering all my arguments baseless. After trying to analzye the Amendment, I think some further <i>amending</i> should be in order. The whole thing is pretty damn vague.
I guess it is supposed to be vague in order to be able to provide a framework for anything that could happen, knowing that the courts could interpret and narrow any specific situation later on. Back to the specific show, it was a good idea to have a seemingly legal removal of the President as a plot line. It makes for very good television, in my opinion. And I sure think 24 has surpassed everything they did last season. I can't imagine where they can go next season, but I know I'll be glued to my television to see (and to see what happens in the last episodes of this season).
TIME UP FOR PREZ NEW YORK POST April 29, 2003 -- FOUR hours remain on the clock before "24" once again ends its really long, real-time day - hardly enough time to start impeachment proceedings against President Palmer. Fans who caught the final minutes of last week's program watched the clock implode just as the vice president and the President's cabinet were about to start a behind-closed-doors meeting to remove the President, played by Dennis Haysbert, from office. But can they actually do that? TV can take a lot of liberties with the truth (for the sake of a good story, of course). But in this case, it turns out they can. Robert Cochran - the program's co-creator and one of its executive producers who also happens to be an attorney with a law degree from Stanford - remembers the brainstorming session. "As soon as somebody mentioned the 25th Amendment, we knew that was a good way to go because there's no real precedent for it and it's very vaguely drafted," he said. Cochran said once he got a copy of the amendment and saw it had never been legally tested he realized, "Hey, we're in business - we have a lot of leeway there legitimately." What's likely to ensue in tonight's episode? Given how the 25th Amendment operates, any number of things need to occur, according to Michael Herz, a professor at New York's Cardozo School of Law, who agrees that because this legal mechanism has never been tested and no authoritative statement has been made with respect to its meaning, "it's very much up for grabs." Herz says that, under this amendment, a majority of the cabinet members plus the vice president must write a letter to Congress declaring the president is no longer capable of discharging his duties, usually because he is either sick, crazy or missing. Once that letter is signed, sealed and delivered, the vice president immediately becomes acting president. "At that point, the president can write his own letter that says, 'Wait a minute, I'm suffering no inability at all - I'm perfectly capable of doing my job,' " Herz said. "And if the president writes that letter, then he becomes President again - unless the majority of the cabinet and the vice president stick to their guns. At that point Congress has 21 days to decide." Time consuming overall, yes, but squeezing that initial letter into an hour-long drama is highly doable. Cochran admits he's particularly sensitive to how the law is depicted on the small screen. "Usually, it just drives you crazy if you're an attorney watching law shows on TV," he says, especially when programs depict "cases that would take years in real life, all taking place within the course of a week or so. "Now," the producer admits, "I feel like anybody else whose interests have shifted from one side of the fence to the other."
Well, the NYU Law dude seems to support my interpretation, but he was asked before watching the episode so he didn't clear up any potential inconsistencies on the show. But no matter what, I think the central premise of the action (removing the President for long enough to authorize the military strike) was probably accurately enough described. I guess it comes down to a big "so what" if some of the details were slightly off (if they were at all). The overall premise is sound. $$$SPOILERS$$$ I wasn't expecting to see Sherry Palmer at the end.
Exactly. This ain't a documentary. We're talking about a TV show where one of the story lines consisted of a teenage girl getting trapped in a bear trap, while a hunger cougar looked on... Would it kill the actors to actually act like it was 4:00 AM? Everyone's always alert, and you never see bags under anyone's eyes. Kind of annoying for a show that tries to be somewhat realistic.
!!!SPOILERS!!! how you know she's dead? I bet she survives. Also, what about Spawn blowing that dude away? She's awesome.
spoilers cont. If Alexei Drazen can't survive it, I doubt Sherry survives, especially with Jack concentrating on getting the programmer. Two Kimisms in that one scene though...she grabs her bags after seeing the dead cop in the bush, and she goes into a room without locking the door....boy is she dumb, I'm just surprised she picked up the gun.
***Spoiler***** I don't think the b**** died b/c wasn't it her voice in the preview for next week? And...Kim is too hot, even though she is an idiot.
Well that was a rather interesting ending. Of course as soon as "Max" called on Plan 2, I knew something bad was going to happen to Palmer. If Jack has 24 hours to find a cure for Palmer, its going to be hard with his somewhat screwed up heart condition. Overall, a great series....better than last season. And you know that Sarah Wynter will be back for season 3 as Jack's love interest / victim of revenge from the terrorists....
I don't know how many others caught it. The woman who tried to kill the President at the end was Mandy from season 1. She was the lesbian in the helicopter delivering the keycard from the very first or second episode last year. Looks like they will be combining last season's bad guys with this season's. Maybe Nina will be back next year?
Interesting is too nice of a word. I was rather dissapointed. I've been extremely pleased with this season up until this point. I just didn't like the little twist at the end. I was hoping for a little more after Palmer got poisoned. It was a great season, kinda stinky ending... for me.
