For me, it boils down to this: the principle of extending compassion to all sentient beings is more important than the principle of "rights."
I've said before that I love animals ( I better, I have a farm full of them, we now have 12 cats [2 live indoors], 4 dogs, 8 goats, 2 quarter horses and 12 head of Jersey cattle), but do I ascribe the same rights as I enjoy? Of course not. We are stewards over the Earth and we should treat the animals with respect by not sport hunting, not being uneccessarily cruel to them and making sure the ones in our care receive all the care and attention they need. In fact, my Jack Russell Champ even goes with me to work some days and is so well-behaved, he knows to only do his business outside. Now as for his attitude, he is a Jack after all and they are quite willfull, especially Champ, since he is so spoiled.
I wish I could double quote bama and green because I think we have reached some sort of comprimise, except for the fact that Green thinks we shouldn't eat them, which is debatable, and bama does, so I think we can all go enjoy some veggie/rare burgers down at the local burger stop.....
No doubt. All the meat my family eats is either venison or beef. Nothing better in jambalaya than big chunks of well-seasoned deer sausage.
Whooo...ya damm right! Come the second or third weekend in November, when the first rut is peaking in central Texas; I will be posted up under a Cedar bush or scrub oak with my trusty Marlin 30.30 trying to rattle up a good buck! And all you "big-caliber" boys out there might laugh at my cowboy rifle but I have never taken down any whitetail with that piece that didn't drop like a ton of bricks...very humanely I might add--My brother taught me to shoot once and ONLY once--if you are going to kill, do it quick and clean.
You know, it's sort of hard for dolphins and other animals to create art and technology without opposable thumbs. No one ever talks about that.
I wonder why? If they could go thousands of years with the thought in their complex minds that, "hey, I really wish I had thumbs and fingers", then surely they would have evolved by now, right? So obviously, they haven't had the desire to create technology and art. Poor animals. If they could only read what we are talking about here, they may just start sprouting little nubbs, the beginning of legs.....
My response was intended as sarcasm. If you'd read this thread, you'll see that the statement I responded to was likely NOT a joke. It seems that most people here simply want to question another's stance, rather than coming out with what they actually believe. Flip the record guys, what do you really think? Or do you?
Bull****. I've been ranting about the dangers of dolphins for, well, days at least. Dolphins Evolve Opposable Thumbs "Oh ****!!!" Says Humanity HONOLULU—In an announcement with grave implications for the primacy of the species of man, marine biologists at the Hawaii Oceanographic Institute reported Monday that dolphins, or family Delphinidae, have evolved opposable thumbs on their pectoral fins. "I believe I speak for the entire human race when I say, 'Holy ****,'" said Oceanographic Institute director Dr. James Aoki, noting that the dolphin has a cranial capacity 40 percent greater than that of humans. "That's it for us monkeys." Aoki strongly urged humans, especially those living near the sea, to learn to communicate using a system of clicks and whistles in a frequency range of 4 to 150 kHz. He also encouraged humans to "start practicing their echolocation as soon as possible." Delphinologists have reported more than 7,000 cases of spontaneous opposable-digit manifestation in the past two weeks alone, with "thumbs" observed on the bottle-nosed dolphin, the Atlantic humpback dolphin, and even the rare Ganges River dolphin. Above: One of the evolved dolphins, whose opposable thumbs have struck fear in the hearts of humankind. "It appears to be species-wide," said dolphin specialist Clifford Brees of the Kewalo Basin Marine Mammal Laboratory, speaking from the shark cage he welded shut around himself late Monday. "And it may be even worse: We haven't exactly been eager to check for thumbs on other marine mammals belonging to the order of cetaceans, such as the killer whale. Oh, Christ, we're really in the soup now." Thus far, all the opposable digits encountered appear to be fully functional, making it possible for dolphins—believed to be capable of faster and more complex cogitation than man—to manipulate objects, fashion tools, and construct rudimentary pulley and lever systems. Above: A primitive axe crafted out of driftwood and shell that is believed to be the handiwork of dolphins. "They really seem to be making up for lost time with this thumb thing," said Dr. Jim Kuczaj, a University of California–San Diego biologist who has studied the seasonal behavior of dolphins for more than 30 years. "Last Friday, a crude seaweed-and-shell abacus washed up on the beach near Hilo, Hawaii. The next day, a far more sophisticated abacus, fashioned from some unknown material and capable of calculating equations involving numbers of up to 16 digits, washed up on the same beach. The day after that, the beach was littered with thousands of what turned out to be coral-silicate and kelp-based biomicrocircuitry." "My God," Kuczaj added. "What are they doing down there?" It is unknown what precipitated the dolphins' sudden development of opposable thumbs. Some dolphin behaviorists believe that the gentle marine mammal, pushed to the brink by humanity's reckless pollution and exploitation of the sea, tapped into some previously unmined mental powers to spontaneously generate a thumb-like appendage. However, given that 95 percent of the world's dolphin experts have committed suicide since learning of the development, the full story may never be known. "You must believe, sleek ocean masters, that many of us homo sapiens weep with shame and disgust over the degradation to which our species has subjected our All-Mother, the Great World-Sea," read the suicide note of Dr. Richard Morse, a Brisbane, Australia, delphinologist and regular contributor to Marine Mammal Science. "If you are reading this, I estimate that it is the day we know as August 31, 2000. Please be decent and kind masters to our poor ape-race. Oh, God, I'm so sorry about the tracking collars." "Scientists once wondered whether dolphins, with their remarkably advanced social and language structures, are actually smarter than we are," said Aoki, ushering reporters out of the laboratory he claimed "will either be a smoking hole or a zoo exhibit in the coming Dolphin Age." "Well, we're not wondering anymore."
You have the natural right to defend yourself against an aggressor. And you would too. Don't think for a second that if you just walked up to some dog and started f*cking with it that it wouldn't react to you. It would either leave the area, or it would defend itself against you. I'm not saying that you have to baby them and pamper them like another human being. I'm just going to say I completely agree with what Cohen said.
Back on subject, I'd like to know one's reasoning for this belief: That animals should not be eaten. We should not eat meat. Animals have the right to not be eaten. This belief is in the minds of some vegetarians. I know this is a minority belief, and most vegetarians are so due to health concerns, but some people take this stance. Why is that? Animals kill other animals for food. Can't we do the same? Is it wrong to hunt for our food? I guess it's ok for predatory animals to hunt, since they are deprived of the ability to live off of grass, so it isn't their fault. Also, say that living off of animals IS right. Is living off of chickens just a right as, say, living off of Chimps? I say no. There are certain animals fit for food, and others not. Where do I get my basis on that? From what God said. I'll elaborate on this soon. But for the sake of argument, say you don't acknowledge God at all. If you eat meat, why not dine on horses? I know that SOME people may do just that, please don't point out a time in history that a horse was eaten. Popular culture practices? I understand that animals should not be abused. That stance is fine with me. But the general word "RIGHTS" and the use of it, can mean, and does mean, a lot of different things to different people-that is clear, just read this thread. I wonder if the Power Dancers are all vegetarian?
"One of the main problems of mythology is reconciling the mind to this brutal precondition of all life, which lives by the killing and eating of lives...don't kid yourself by eating only vegetables, because they too are alive. So the essence of life is this eating of itself!" - Joseph Campbell
This is a fair question. In answering it, allow me to expand a bit on my previous post. Rights, as we know them, are the result of civilization. Inhabitants of a nation give up some of their rights in order to live in a civilized and ordered society. For instance, I retain the freedom of speech and you have given up your right to lawfully punch me in the face for exercising that right. Rights are generally enforced (not given, but enforced) by laws. This is a rudimentary explanation of the social compact. The responsibilities that follow the rights involve not committing infractions of laws. If an infant were to rip one of its countrymen to shreds, we would have a unique problem on our hands. Fortunately, this has not happened yet. A fox (or other animal) routinely kills its own kind, especially in adulthood. My question remains. If we are going to ascribe to animals our notion of human rights, then logically it would flow that they would have to be subject to our laws. I am not advocating the jailing of woodland creatues. I am using this as an illustration to show that it is apples and oranges. Animals cannot be treated as though they were human simply because they aren't.
