I disagree that this is all post-game "b****ing." What has been discussed are longterm, persistent, unresolved problems which, in my opinion, will ultimately "sink" this team if not addressed. And they are obviously not being addressed. If our guards do not become more disciplined, play under control, execute fundamental basketball skills, and stay within a pattern or system (if there is one) this team will continue to underachieve. (We also need someone to play PF who can rebound and make a shot)
Solid, <blockquote><hr>What has been discussed are longterm, persistent, unresolved problems which, in my opinion, will ultimately "sink" this team if not addressed. And they are obviously not being addressed. <hr></blockquote>I honestly do not believe that changing the system and the roles (specifically Mobley's role) hasn't been addressed. since Day 1 this year. Do you not believe Rudy is changing the offense, and Francis/Mobley are buying into it? On many occasions, this offense has looked significantly different than ever before, and Rice said it again in the Chronicle, "This is a motion offense." Rudy said that the offense is dictated by what the defense takes away. Rice also said that we are not using the whole system and going to contrived, favored reads, whether the defense took them away or not. That's where we agree, solid; that the offense is sputtering by its inability to read and properly react to all situations. But I disagree that we are not addressing the need for change from previous years. imo, this issue is that this team can't one-up the changing defenses. It's like we have a breakthrough, have a good run, NBA defenses adjust, and we have to learn to beat that. Sure we continue seeing copywritten mistakes by Francis and Mobley, but we also see Yao Ming fail to use fundamental basketball and hold the ball above his head when he is canvasing the court. He gets stripped from a clever guard way, way too much for him to be considered fundamentally flawless, as well. I personally reject any notion that the offense is not changing, or that the coaches/players are not addressing the need for change. To me, that is without argument.<ul><li>Do we get out of our game plans and into guard scrambles still? <b>Yes.</b><li>Do we have mental breakdowns in end games still? <b>Yes.</b><li>Do Griffin and Yao get lost in the offense sometimes destroying rhythm? <b>Yes.</b><li>Did Isiah Thomas get chastised for years that he jacked up too many shots and wanted to go one-on-many in the end game? <b>Yes.</b><li>Do we need Francis to be more perfect to win a title? <b>Yes.</b><li>Do we need Francis to be flawless to get to the playoffs? <b>No.</b><li>Can an Hakeem plodding DIT offense win, or a Sloan plodding 2-man game win in the era of zones? <b>I don't subscribe to that.</b></ul><b>Pessimism vs Optimism</b> <b>Solid</b> The difference between you and I is that you see an inevitable, hopeless meltdown that will "sink" us. I see us closer to .600 than that. The reason is: most non-injury driven meltdowns are due to teams losing belief in themselves or the coaches. We are nowhere close to that happening. This team has persistence. They love their coach, and they legitimately hate to lose. And the three stars (SF, CM, YM) works their asses off. Think about it. Meltdowns without injuries mostly happen with infighting. Persistence and eagerness to win got the Knicks to the Finals from an 8th seed, and it figures that a will-to-win personality like Latrell Sprewell was a main fixture in that run. Persistence and determination got an ugly offense run by Iverson to the Finals. <b>just remember Solid and Crash:</b> you are more pessimistic that Steve, Cat and Yao. <b>no one on cc.net or anyone associated with the Rockets hates to lose more than Steve and Cat.</b> No one wants to perservere more than them. But they apparently learn more from losing, than winning. Oh well. And I have tickets. Life goes on; enjoy the ride. <b>bottomline</b>: rather than going to a plodding Hakeem DIT offense, if we stick to our sputtering (sometimes exceptional) motion, and give the whole team more games under their belt running this offense...it will be a lot more easy to switch to a Yao-run, Walton-esque High Post UCLA Cut offense in years to come. We will be a team that can run motion, and can make subtle switching to different motion concepts, and then we become flawless. Who really believes we could make such a transition in one year?
O-dawg, I forgot something else that might be a reason we are not running the 2-3 matchup as much. There is a zone strategy that says the use of a 2-3 versus 3-2 is dictated by the structure of the offense. If they are running a 3-2, you play 2-3. If the offense is in a 2-3, you run a 3-2. I can't say if that applies here, but it is something to look at.
Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but don't Wally Szerbiak and Cuttino have similar sized contracts? How about a trade? Wally's perimeter shooting game seems a better fit, and despite some concerns about his selfishness, I still think he's a more disciplined player than Cat. Besides, Cat and Francis together is a lethal combination....for the Rockets that is. They are like two kids who seem to egg each other on to greater heights of stupid basketball. Summer quote from Francis in repsonse to having to pass to Yao..."yeah, right. I don't think so." Cuttino...."Amen" These are not the type of guys who should be responsible for running a team looking to get into the playoffs.
HP, Your thoughtful response is appreciated. You have no idea how I hope you are right. Like you, I love the Rockets. Unlike you, I am not very fond of this particular team as currently constructed. Like you, I am extremely impressed with the athleticism of Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley. Unlike you and many others, if I were the coach, neither would play for me. But as a Rocket's fan, I am stuck with them. Even when they score big, even when we win, they absolutely drive me crazy. I hate the way they play. Motion offense transition notwithstandking, that is unlikely to change, because they don't change. In sharp contrast, I love Ming and see enormous potential in Griffin, but both have already begun to fade in what I consider "bad company" and that is tragic. Solution: I would give up on the "playground guard era," bring in a real playmaker, and rebuild the team around Ming. This is unlikely to happen, so, again, I hope you are right: Our guards "see the light," begin playing within themselves and the new system, exercise self control, commit to playing defense, see the high percentage shot, find the open player, and trust the team more than themselves. And so may it be, Amen.
Thanks HeyP. I missed the 3-2 that we were playing but honestly have been so disappointed by not seeing the modified 2-3 that the Rox play that I have just been assuming that they were in man and not paying any closer attention. We're in agreement on the optimism versus pessimism as well. I am also optimistic in thinking that many of my fellow posters expect so much from the Rockets players that it is hard for them not to explode some times out of frustration and that this is what leads to the continued b****ing and calls to trade one of our gaurds. I hope that this is what it is and not just some adolescent need to tear down our gaurds while proclaiming the perfection of Yao. All players make mistakes, the good ones learn from their mistakes. Steve has and is still learning from his. He is not the same player he was upon entering the league, hell, he is not even the same player he was when entering this season. I see growth. Others of you may not, or it may not be fast enough for you, but that doesn't matter because by the size of the contract he signed in the off season it is apparently enough for the folks that do matter.
So by stating that they don't change is it safe to assume that you feel that Steve Francis is the same player that he was when he entered the league and has not improved his game one bit? He hasn't worked on the mid-range shot? (since folks like to quote Calvin around here lately) He has not improved his three point shot? He doesn't look for team mates more? He hasn't improved in his decision making at all? So the recent poor shooting nights of Yao and Eddie are Steve and Cats fault too. I know it's because Steve has been going into all of those ISO's and not passing to Yao huh? Or maybe it's because Steve has just been coming down and calling off the post up for Yao and just shooting the three, or driving in himself huh? Or could it be because Eddie is just not getting enough touches in the low post or otherwise... HUH? Man some of you guys have your heads so deep up Yaos butt that you could probably tell me what he had for breakfast. Sheesh. Don't get me wrong I love the kid, but he makes mistakes too, just like Steve, Cat, and the rest of the team. This is a team issue and it does not fall on just the heads of our guards that we lose. Period.
O-dawg, I'm not saying you missed anything, more that we could both be missing something. I recall that you are more right than wrong; that we have been running more man that anything else, since Kenny left. (I missed two games over the holidays.) I was just saying that if offenses go to a High Post 1-4 or a some 2-3 structures against us, Rudy could possibly choose not to run that matchup zone against them. Maybe the opponents have pulled us out of our zones (flattened them, like the Kings do) to make us go man, or as with GS, not threaten the perimeter that much (say, in a 2-3 offense) to allow us to run a collapsing man defense.
I'm with ya HeyP, I would really like to see some zone tonight against the Pupps, as their only real perimeter threat is Wally and possibly Garnett in the 15 to 18 foot range. Peeler's shot has just not been there of late, but this is really more of a topic for the game thread... my bad folks... continue the b****ing.
Batman and Robin, er, I mean HeyPartner and O-Dawg. Pleassssse. I don't hate Francis and Mobley; I actually like their public personna (that is all I know of them). They seem like hard workers, they hustle, they appear fun loving and playfull. I know they want to win. What I don't like is their basketball performance. For all their "highlight reel" plays their lack of crisp passing, poor shot selection, over-dribbling, stupid turnovers, etc. etc. cancel out their positive accomplishments. They often defeat their own efforts and even when the team wins they make it harder than it should be. Sometime I think they believe that you get extra points for "degree of difficulty." I agree O-Dawg, that Francis has made some improvement in the areasyou mention, but his overall mindset, basketball temperment, instincts remain the same. When the pressure is on, he and Mobley revert to the playground. That drives me crazy! For example, in the close Warriers game, Francis attempts a "stylin" dunk and misses. So typical. I hate that stuff.
A better question should be why is no one on the Rockets YELLING to Steve when Slim shady is coming on his backside? I mean is it too much to ask to communicate out there. They could even get the Chinese word for behind you, and use it...no one on the other team would know what the hell they are saying. I would utilize Yao and get some cool Chinese phrases to use. DD
Totally irrelevant anecdote time. It's 1994 or 1995, and I'm a Lakers fan recently relocated to Chicago. The Lakers play the Bulls, and L.A. wins a close game as Toni Kukoc misses a crucial 3-point shot down the stretch from just in front of the Lakers bench. After the game, a reporters asks about something he heard the Lakers reserves shouting as Kukoc took the shot. Vlade Divac explains, "I taught them the Croatian word for 'choke.'"
I share the same sentiments with. Even in some wins I find myself gnashing my teeth larmenting over our guards inability to grasp the concept of simplicity and self control on the basketball court. Arggggggrrrrh.....
If we are to believe heypartner, though, it makes all the difference which offensive structure Francis & Mobley are ignoring to play 1-on-5 schooyard basketball.
Swopa, fundamentally unsound low posts completely void of wit are for 1-on-1 schoolyard "sis" sass complete with matching glossy lipstick, plaid skirts, knee highs and friends saying... "You go girl."
Y'all can bicker amongst yourselves all you want about the guards' play. I, for one, am more than happy with it. First off, everyone makes mistakes, and in crunch time Steve and Cuttino haven't cost the Rockets but 2 or 3 games. Do people go screaming, "Trade Kobe!" whenever he blows a last second play, which he does as much as anyone else? I didn't think so. And you are also considering only the negative. How many games have Steve and Cuttino WON for us? A whole hell of a lot. The Knicks game: Was it Steve and Cuttino only who played poorly? Take a closer look at the stat line. EVERYONE played terribly. They played a bad game. IT HAPPENS. The Jazz: Steve was shooting 75% from the field. Why shouldn't he have the ball? True, he had 7 turnovers, but just the other night Jason Kidd had TWELVE. He's still gonna have the ball in crunch time, because he's a proven scorer and assist man. Steve can do the same (to a lesser extent on assists, but remember that he isn't a true point guard). The Warriors: Steve goofed. I admit it. But it happens. I'm not going to have an aneurysm over it. Go for a walk or something. Don't abuse your dog. One final thought and then I'm done. Can you run the point better than Steve or Moochie? Can you shoot the ball better than Cuttino? Hmmm...just watch the game PLEASE, and if you don't like what you see, turn off the TV, leave the arena, whatever, and leave the basketball to the professionals.
