I edited my last post before I read yours PGAB'... I'm simply find it interesting that Mobley would be dogged after having a good game overall, call it protecting if you like. I just hate when people try to make it seem like the gaurds are the problem and Yao is the answer, one w/o the other is not enough. The point is that to trade this player for that player is not going to work, we have the pieces. The challenge is getting these players to have enough confidence in each other, Rudy, and the offensive system to not feel like they have to take on the world when closing out games. It would also help if we had a little more defensive stability at the close of games. Good\Great teams get better defensively at the end of games, the Rox were doing a nice job of this, but have seemed to fall off lately... hmmm right at about the same time they completely stop running the zone... Wonder what's up with that?
1st Year Players Yao Ming 22 years old – Starter (All Star) Bostjan Nachbar 22 years old - Non Contributor Juaquin Hawkins 29 years old - Small Contributor Tito Maddox 21 years old - Non Contributor Pete Mickeal 24 years old – Non Contributor 2nd Year Players Eddie Griffin 20 years old - Starter Terence Morris 23 years old – Small Contributor 3rd Year Players Jason Collier 25 years old - Non Contributor 4th Year Players Steve Francis 25 years old – Starter (All Star) James Posey 25 years old – Major Contributor (primary sub off of the bench) 5th Year Players Cuttino Mobley 27 years old – Starter 6th Year Players Maurice Taylor 26 years old – Major Contributor (primary sub off of the bench) Moochie Norris 29 years old – Major Contributor (primary sub off of the bench) Kelvin Cato 27 years old – Major Contributor (primary sub off of the bench) 14th Year Players Glen Rice 35 years old – Starter Avg. age for the starters is 25.8 years old Avg. current year of NBA experience for the starters is 5.2 years Avg. age for starters + major contributors are 26.2 years Avg. current year of NBA experience for starters + major contributors are 5.3 years There is a quick breakdown of all the players that see significant minutes of meaningful basketball. I did not include Terence Morris or Juaquin Hawkins because they don’t seem to be apart of Rudy T’s regular rotation since the Rockets acquired James Posey. In the last three games TMo has received a total of 11 minutes and Hawk has played a total of 0 minutes so they are clearly being squeezed out of the rotation by Posey. The thing that jumps out is the fact that the Rockets have 8 players on the team with 3 or fewer current years in the NBA. The one thing that is mis-leading about that little stat is that only two of those players see any significant time on the floor and 4 of those 8 may have forgotten the ball is round since they receive so little playing time. The players making the key mistakes at key points in the game all are in their 4th year or latter in the NBA and all have played together under Rudy for at least 4 years. The youngest of those players is Steve Francis at 25 years of age. With this information everyone will just have to excuse me if I don’t by into the age and experience factor being the cause for the Rockets mental breakdowns late in games. Steve Francis was younger than Yao Ming when he entered the league and Rudy T made the decisions to place the game in his hands during key periods of the game. He knew that Steve would make some bad decisions but that he would also learn and be more prepared for that role on down the line. The problem is that Steve has not learned from his mistakes. Yao Ming should be given the same opportunity to learn as Steve did. IMO Yao Ming has been much more willing and much better at involving the whole team when the ball is in his hands. I am not saying that Steve looses all rights to make decisions during the course of the game but Yao Ming does not seem to panic in pressure situations like Steve does. Of course Yao Ming will make mistakes, he will get the ball stripped from him by some smaller player coming from his blind side or he will make a pass to someone cutting to the basket that is not looking for the pass but he will learn and his team mates will learn what to expect from him. The one major point that I think is worth bringing up about Yao Ming is that he seems to change gears and turn it up a couple of notches in the 4th quarter. How many times have we seen him grab a big offensive rebound and slam the ball home to either give us the lead or tie the game? I have seen it many times. One of the best examples of what Yao Ming can do with the ball in his hands late in the game came several games ago when Yao Ming made a beautiful pass to Steve Francis cutting to the basket, Steve missed a dunk but Yao Ming was right their for the offensive rebound and the put back. You can just see a difference in the mans temperament when it is late in games. Evan against the Warriors where it looked like he was having such a bad offensive night Yao Ming scored more points during the last few minutes then in the other 3 quarters combined and every time he touched the ball something good happened and it usually ended with a Troy Murphy foul and a Yao Ming free throw. Yao Ming has followed this pattern in most of the games he has started this year. Almost all of the great players in history have been able to turn it up a notch or two during crunch time of games and Yao Ming seems to be following that example. I am not suggesting ignoring Steve in the offense but I am suggesting making Yao Ming the focal point and I certainly believe the ball should be in his hands down the stretch when the games are on the line.
Two reasons... one is to emphasize the fact that it it is not just our gaurds that are the issue, and two to illustrate the fact the even Yao makes mistakes and is not quite ready to take on the lions share of the offensive responsibility (as some have suggested). Should he be a part of the offense? Yes. Should he get alot of touches? Yes and the Rox are doing this more and more, hell they went to him almost exclusively on the first three or four possesions if memory serves me correctly and got nothing, jack, nada... is he any less of a player? Nope, should we trade him? Nope. Everyone has bad games, and in this one two of the three biggest parts of our offense had a bad one. That hurts. It's not the first time and it won't be the last, the good teams bounce back and have more winning streaks than loosing... let's just relax and see if the Rox can do it, that's part of what makes watching the game fun for me... having faith in my team and believing they will make it,even through adversity and tough stretches. It makes it even sweeter when they do.
I personally think that the guards are the problem and that Yao Ming is the answer...but you are right one with out the other is not enough. Steve, Cat and Moochies strengths are their incredible athleticism. They can create huge mis-matches with their athleticism and they can win games with that athleticism. However basketball IQ is not one of their strengths. While their athleticism sometimes wins us games their basketball IQ seems to loose us just as many games. Yao Ming also comes with a great deal of athleticism...maybe the most ever for a man his size. It is also very clear that Yao Ming's basketball IQ is one of his strengths, unlike our guards. I don't want to trade any of our guards except maybe Moochie but I would like to see the ball in Yao Ming's hands more during the pivotal points of the game. I think Steve Francis becomes twice as lethal when he is a consistent threat to receive a pass from Yao Ming while cutting to the basket. I don't think Yao Ming will show the same inability to learn from his mistakes that Steve Francis has.
Your memory serves you correctly but now take time to remember the 4th quarter. Yao Ming raised his intensity and every time he touched the ball something good happened. His touches usually ended in a Troy Murphy foul and Yao Ming free throws. Now use your memory to recall the fourth quarter of all the games since Yao Ming has been a starter. In most Yao Ming has turned it up a notch or two and in almost every situation something good usually happens when the ball is in his hands. That is a sign of a truly great player and one that should have the ball in his hands more than less during crunch times of games.
Anyone ever notice that the Rockets can't handle a full court press at all? I heard Gene-o comment once, when an opponent (Boston) was putting a press on us, he said that "that may have worked in college, but Pitino was gonna learn that it doesn't work here in the NBA" Well I got news for ya. It works really well against the Rocks. And, for some strange reason, it always has. Every time a team presses us, it results in the following: 1) forces a turnover. The guard gets trapped at half court and no teammate comes to help. 2) kills clock. By the time our gaurd has done his fancy dribbling to get around the press, he looks up to set the play and realizes there's 4 seconds left on the shot clock. 3) tires and frustrates our guards. After losing to the press 3 or 4 times in a row, we have to call a timeout in hopes that our guards can get rest, get control of their emotions, and to tell the rest of the team to help out. Come to think of it, I can't remember a time that the Rockets have put a full court press on an opponent. I guess we can add this to our list of complaints. -- droxford
Crash... I definitely agree that going to the big guy late in games is going to help you alot more than it hurts you. I am so tired of the Rox trying to win games with last second jumpers instead of feeding the big guy for a shot closer to the basket, and if you read this Chronicle article Francis is actually quoted as saying that he was looking for the big guy on the last jumper that he took, but he couldn't get open, why because Dampier had checked back into the game and we all know that Damp was giving Ming fits.Rockets\Warriors "I got hit in the head on that shot," he said. "I was looking for (Yao.) Once he didn't get open, I decided to shoot. I thought I got nudged on the dome a little, but contact happens. I hit that shot a million times. Hell the simple fact that he needs to raise his intensity is a problem for him and the whole team. Rox don't play with enough of a sense of urgency (at least against sub-500 teams). I'm not trying to turn this into this player versus that player thing, because we need both performing to the best of their potential to be successful. If we can not excuse Steve and Cat for their errors than we can not excuse Yao either, especially if you want to run the offense through him. I remember the good games that Yao has had, I also remember the difficult ones that he has had against sub-par talent who were physical with him. I remember as well the many games that Steve and Cuttino have one with clutch or last second shots. Let's be fair to all of our players, their all Rockets. Running the offense through Yao exclusively (or mostly for that matter) is not the answer. A combo of inside\outside, cutting, and penetration for shot or a dish is the style that this team needs to play. We have the tools, lets keep and give them some time to work out the kinks.
O-dawg, 1. My problem with Steve at the end of the GS game was not the last shot but instead the next to last possession where he brought the ball up the court with the game tied and looked completely lost while dribbling to one side of the court and allowing himself to be double teamed with all of the passing lanes cut off. Slim Shady then sneaked around Steve for an easy steal and a go ahead lay up for the Warriors. How many times have we heard Calvin talk about bringing the ball up the court and trapping yourself on one sideline. I know I have heard him say many many times over the last few years and Steve continues to make this same mistake. If you make this mistake with the time running out on the shot clock and less than a minute left in the game it does not give you much time to correct that mistake once the mistake is made. 2. I think I give Steve a lot of credit and even talked about his athleticism winning games for us in an earlier post. The problem is that you can point to mental lapses that Steve has at the end of the game that take us out of position to win just as many close games as his athleticism wins for us. 3. Steve is one of the primary reasons that we are in games close to the end but that does us no good if all of his hard work goes to waste because of mental lapses. I personally think Yao Ming has a much higher basketball IQ than Steve Francis. I think we could cut down on a lot of mistakes by simplifying things late in the game by placing the ball in Yao Ming’s hands. 4. All of the great ones raise their intensity in the fourth quarter of games. That is not some big secret. Yao Ming routinely plays some of his best basketball at the end of games. Don’t try to make that into some problem with Yao Ming. Every team wants and needs players that know how to step up in the fourth quarter of games. Steve Francis routinely makes some of his worst mistakes at the end of games during times when we just do not have enough time to make up for his mistakes. 5. I like Steve Francis and he is a very important piece in our puzzle but IMO and in the opinion of many others, Yao Ming will be the better player and already has a much higher basketball IQ. The fourth quarter is not the time to forget about the rest of the team as viable options as Steve Francis routinely does. All I am saying is that it might be time to start redefining some of the player’s role on the team. I am not saying we should reduce Steve’s role just redefine it and give some of the responsibility of closing games to Yao Ming. BTW, the last play that the Rockets ran against GS looked exactly like the same play that has turned into their favorite end of the game last second play. The ball is inbounded to Yao Ming who is standing just to off center of the 3pt line. Steve Francis runs around behind Yao Ming receives a hand off or pass while using Yao Ming as a pick and then advances down the arc for an 3 or moves inside the arc for a 2. During the play against GS, Francis moved inside the arc for a 2 and the ball sailed about 2 feet wide of the basket. I like that play a lot and was thinking about that play when the Rockets inbounded the ball. If Francis said he got hit in the head when he shot the ball I absolutely believe him because of the way the shot completely missed the basket. I don’t see how Yao Ming was an option to for Steve to pass to though since I don’t recall Yao Ming moving towards the basket after the pass but then again I was watching Steve. I just want to make it clear that I thought the last possession was the proper play for the time but I thought the possession prior to that is where we lost a game that we had seized control of.
I think Cat's post game interview says it all. He simply says that guys aren't listening to Rudy. Maybe it isn't as much as Rudy's fault as it is the players'. I hope Cat wasn't just talking about other players and exclded himself. Because he although he had a great game, I get the feeling that he doesn't always listen to the coach either.
The Kenny Thomas trade was a killer. Ever since then, the team has sucked. Griffin and Mo are both p*****s. KT had the fire and he could throw people around. You could go to him and he would make things happen. He wouldn't get pushed aside like Griffin and Mo. He wouldn't shoot 30 percent like Griffin. He was (is) smart. You see him out there working his butt off and the team would follow suit. Check the post-trade record. Bring back Kenny.
I feel that it is guard play that is hurting us. It boils down to the fact that Francis and Mobley are the same exact damn player! We need to get rid of one (preferably Mobley) and bring in a true PG. Until that happens, we are going to remain frustrated fans, and it is OBVIOUS to me that either Rudy doesn't know what to do OR guys are tuning him out to the point of daring him to sit them down.
crash, <b>The Youth Arument is not entirely bogus</b> The youth argument most definitely works with our defense. The longterm anchors of our defense are 20 and 22, and simply not big enough to make a huge impact or be real anchors. Our defense is getting worse just as NBA offenses are getting better, this year. The youth argument also works with the fact none of our starters has learned a 5-man motion game in college or the NBA until this year (expect Rice), not Yao....he's learning it, too. <b>We are getting our wish for a 5-man game more than we are not.</b> Chin up my friend. I am very thrilled with our new offensive focus this year. It is becoming more and more clear that Rudy is injecting a new offense, with 5-man motion and transition...like we all wanted. The good side is that shows you what they are doing in practice and what Rudy's final goal is, and that he is sticking to it. The downside is this is not the most experienced bunch at learning and running motion. The difficulty with motion is 5-men must read the defense as one. It isn't just do this and then use that as an outlet. The main advantage of motion is 5 men making reads together. I see us going through the motions a lot with only a contrived attempt at making a favored read, rather than looking for what the defense is giving you. This takes time; hence the reason so many NBA teams suffered early on offensively. It takes all teams time, but some more than others. As I've said many times before, bad motion can be really ugly, and when they don't get off a shot or the defenses outread them for a turnover, then this young team seems to lose faith for spurts, and everyone tries to snap them out of it with an early shot or 3ptr, or forcing reads. <b>Do Single Solutions Exist??</b> <b>I hate to sum up things in one post, but my main point is I'm thrilled by the amount of motion we run, and it will only make us better as the year progresses.</b> It seems like the people who want to say, "well, that's just an excuse," are the same people who like to offer a trade as the solution to everything. To me: our problem is not really one of bad decisions as it is we just are not comfortable or at ease in making reads necessary for this offense to be sustainable against NBA defenses. I don't agree with Swopa that simple one-liners can describe why we are 17-14 instead of 20-11. I mean, think about that. Would we be happy with 20-11? How can one-liners argue about 3 games when the motion offense has indeed clicked surprisingly well to generate some big wins? <blockquote><hr><b>Like Mobley said</b>, "If I knew why (we don't all play with a sense of urgency), I'd fix it." <hr></blockquote> Isn't the whole team talking about commitment and a sense of urgency? Does it have to be systemic or is it just learning to win with sustained focus and being more comfortable in a offensive learning curve. I'm talking about being 20-11, not being a title contender. <b>Can the solution possibly be Status Quo Sticking to a Learning Curve?</b> Remember, you have to continue learning faster than NBA defenses adjust to you. imo, the learning curve of defending the new Rockets is faster than the learning curve of the Rockets reading those defense within their new system. There comes a time in down periods of a season where you enjoy the minor breakthroughs despite the weaknesses. The minor breakthroughs are in Francis/Mobley learning 5-man motion and talking about it; the weaknesses are that you can't just pour a new offense on them and have it instantly take hold. imo, the solution is not scraping motion for a plodding Hakeem/Yao offense. The growing pains will continue, because we are just now learning to make reads as a 5-man unit....not a 2-man game or 3-man game. bottomline: I call it inexperienced motion players incapable of switching/learning offenses quickly, but I like the effort and do not call it a longterm unachievable goal with this group.
For your information, I do know he ranks #2. If you had read my first post, you might have understood that. He ranks #2 only because of his stretch where he shot about 70% from the field, but during the most recent stretch of games, he has been quite ineffective, and you would know this if you were watchin the game. Also, he got the 2 baskets off of offensive rebounds... the focus of this thread is making him the main option and focal point of the offense... a much different topic.
The solution RIGHT NOW is not to dump it to Yao however. OH, and great response heypartner... we are in complete agreement.
Heypartner, It is good to here the devils advocate side to my argument. It gives me hope that I am mostly missing the good things about our team due to the insanity three home losses out of 5 games has caused me. I don’t really have any sort of response to you other than I hope to see Steve Francis correcting some of the last minute mistakes that he has been prone to during his career. Perhaps the Rockets will finally start to click like they did a couple of years ago when we went on a second half run of great games that put us into the play-off race.
I have to agree with crash on this one! I have been making excuses for SF for 3 yrs now, and just can't continue to do so. I quit making excuses for Mobley a long time ago, and as Manny said they are basically the same damn player!!! I kept using the exact same argument some fellow posters are using now.....age,experience,etc.. However, this is Cats what 5th year and Steves 4th? By this time they should have at least learned some from previous mistakes. You can make that argument with EG or Yao, but it simply doesn't fly with guys who have played that much time in the league. On the positive side though I have seen what heypartner was saying about the 5 man motion offense a bit. Maybe by the end of the year Steve,Cat and Mooch will realize that this is 2003 and not 2001....there is a some more talent around you guys....PASS the damn ball!!!!
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. This team is REALLY young, and they haven't been playing together that long. This is just Posey,Nachbar and Yao's first year with us, Eddie's and Rice's second, and Taylor hasn't even played with any of those guys before this season due to injury. The only guys who have really been playing together for a while are Steve,Cuttino,Moochie and Cato. Give the guys some time to build chemistry. And as far as the guards blowing it for the team in crunch time, Steve,Cat and Moochie have won countless numbers of games for us with threes at the buzzer. They just try to win the game and if they miss everyone rides them for not making the shot. Well if Yao had missed the shot everyone would have been cursing him for missing it (and I have seen a lot of you complain about Yao whenever he has an off game). The point is, the Rockets just need time to build chemistry. I understand that a lot of you get mad when the Rockets lose, but don't turn on great players like Steve and Cuttino just because the team didn't win one game. These guys have great potential, all they need is for someone to help them mature.
I guess the record is all fine and dandy, but i just expect more from this talented group. I mean how long has Phoenix been together? How many young players do they have playing in their regular rotations? marbury is 25,marion is 23,johnson 21,amare 20,penny 31, jacobson 22, and the bo outlaws and scott williamsons are just help players. When i see a team like that, combined with Indy who is the 5th youngest team in the entire league and I know we should have a better record than what we have. The root is still the on court coaches that are killing us. How often do you see Marbury,Nash, or guys like that make critical 4th qt to's. I'm not saying that Francis needs to be traded, I'm just saying that in close games, atheleticism isn't as big of part as winning the games as mental toughness is. Calvin sits on the sidelines and can point out all the faults and problems that the Rockets encur. He can see it, we can see it, can Rudy see it also? If he can't, then the problem is bigger than what we all think. Late in the games, somehow,somewy, no matter what kind of game he is having, get the ball to ming and let people move and cut off of him. At least we seem to get a decent shot in the end when he has the ball.
crash, Every coach and superstar knows that someone has to take the blame for losing close games -- that the other team never just wins. What does that mean? To me, it means the superstars who have to execute precisely in more close games over time will be remembered mostly for their failures, especially since the teams that win most of the close games do it with defense, not precisely executed last minute plays. So getting consistent "W"s with an offensive team with mediocre defense (at best) is about sustained focus for 48 hours by *all* 5 players, so that you can avoid the close games altogether. Because a close game puts you in jeopardy of losing to one play, like Francis getting picked by Sura. Check out the consistency and urgency of our players. Griffin has near zero offensive personality, little chemistry with anyone, lacks smarts about his own game, and gets lost out there; Mo has struggled all year; Yao is too tired sometimes, and shown up getting pushed out of his block; Rice is off and on; same with Mobley (to go with his "kickstarter/savior" complex); and Francis seems to get bored about games and matchups and thinks he can just turn on a switch sometimes. To me, focusing on the last minute will forever frustrate you, especially when we are not that great on defense. The main point of focus, and what can be coached/learned/practiced and overcome is the rest of the game, the chemistry with teammates and system and learning how to avoid sluggish play. It is this "rest of the game" where the players are describing the new offense and where they are also describing their biggest challenge--ie. playing with a sustained sense of urgency. bottomline: there is no doubting that the difference between 17-14 (borderline playoff team) and 20-11 (a lock) is avoiding close games altogether. Question crash: had I told you heading into the season that we'd be 17-14 with a revamped offense that sometimes sputters and sometimes has opposing coaches talking about Rocket's title contention, and thus creates great promise but too many close games, would you have taken that?
Crash... you said you started this thread looking for someone to give you hope and make you feel like what you were feeling is distorted, I think HeyPartner gave ya that bro. I know I sometimes forget that Rudy is instituting a new offense, an offense which is not simple in that it is actually based on reading what the defense gives you. Thanks for the reminder HeyP. By the way HeyPartner, I'd like to get your thoughts on this basketball IQ term that some folks around here have picked up and ran with. I for one dislike the term. I think that for a player to make it to the NBA he has to already have a certain level or understanding of the game, and from there it is up to the player to pick up on his coaches offensive scheme and how the defense reacts to that offense. Similar to folks that have a skill\craft and an understanding of their skill, but most employers are going to train you on how they utilize your skill and how it fits with their company. I think that Rudy is instituting a system that best takes advantages of Steve and Yao's abilities and to a lesser degree Cats as well. I think Steve understands this system as I see less and less of him trying to hard to make something happen and taking shots in the flow of the offense. I see controlled penetration and him kicking out to where he knows players should be in this scheme. When he does make a bone headed play, I attribute this to him falling back into his comfort zone of wanting to make something happen or loosing patience with the offense on nights when things aren't going right. Hence some nights they look like contenders (Milwaukee) and other nights they look like pretenders (NY). I have faith that they'll work out the kinks and trust the offense more. P.S. - Crash, Francis was on the sideline because if you notice that is where they start the majority of the offensive sets from. Rarely will you see them start a set from the top. When Francis brings the ball up the sidelines sometimes it looks like he is doing it in an attempt to get into the the half-court offense earlier.
