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Andy Katz on Mike&Mike 6/28/06

Discussion in '2021 NBA Draft' started by emjohn, Jun 28, 2006.

  1. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    HORRIBLE. I wouldn't say that flippantly. I've got a lot of respect for the real experts, but he was very seriously talking out of his ass, as far as I'm concerned.

    ex.s:
    "Bargnani is going to be more like Gasol than Dirk" - Andy should be slapped. Bargnani's game doesn't resemble Gasol's in the vaguest of senses. He's a skinny 7-foot sharpshooter than has a slight ability to put the ball on the floor and slash. No post game that I've heard of. Gasol is the opposite. Andy had a bad habit of comparing guys in shallow ways: foreign player to other foreign players, white guy to white guy, etc. Said that Bargnani will contribute right away as opposed to Darko and Skita (continuing his foreign-only comparisons), which is way off, IMO. He's a natural 4 (Andy called him a center that's better at facing the basket) that will need to play as a 3 until he develops the strength and ruggedness to bang inside.

    "Adam Morrison: I don't want to say Bird, but.." - I nearly kicked a rabbit over that. (a) I'm sick of the neverending Bird (and MJ) comparisons out there, (b) Morrison's game is NOTHING like Bird. He throws him self into a crowd, jacks up crazy shots while in traffic, and gets away with it. Does Morrison have an uncanny knack at passing that I haven't seen? Dangerous team defense playing the passing lanes? If anyone looks like a flop to me, it's him. I can't think of a single precedent for that kind of game in the NBA, not when you consider how relatively non-athletic and slow he is.

    "Rudy Gay could be a Scottie Pippen" - WTF. Honest to god, WTF. Simply because he's a black small forward? Cause I can't draw any similarities beyond that.

    Those were the big ones, but there was more. Absolutely terrible terrible terrible interview by him. I don't even know what else to say about that.

    Anyone else see it? Disagree with my take?
     
  2. m_cable

    m_cable Contributing Member

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    Well considering that there's a thread in the garm that posits just that, and seems to be a serious discussion all the way around, it appears to be a resonable comparison (even if I don't think it's totally accurate).
     
  3. rocketlaunch

    rocketlaunch Contributing Member

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    on Bargnani the espn guys said the same thing last night. They said he has somewhat of a post up game a better one then dirk had coming to the states. They also said he is not near the prospect dirk or gasol were but he is a hybrid of them both.
     
  4. imoffg33

    imoffg33 Member

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    well apparently talking out of your ass is what you are good at. maybe you didnt take into consideration that andy katz has done a million times more research than you have ever done. also take into consideration that he is paid to be a basketball analyst, one of the best in recent memory. firstly, bargnani has a very decent post game. probably alot better than most of the forwards in this game. also take into consideration that these new rules favor someone like bargnani, a guy who likes to stretch the defences and pop up outside shots. also take into consideration that alot like gasol and dirk, this guy can also drive and create off of the dribble. as to your morrison comments, you are stupid. sorry to say it, but you have no idea what you are talking about. morrisons game is exactly like birds at this point in their careers. sure later on bird became a better defender and a better rebounder, but guess what, that happens to all guys coming out of college. the main similarities are their aptness to make a shot from anywhere on the court and heart, something that is completely lacking on the rockets. so go ahead and talk out of your ass some more about something that you have no clue about, because when these guys become solid nba players, you will look like even more of an idiot than you already are
     
  5. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    calm down on the name calling.

    anyhow...since you are defending katz...how in the world does gay resemble pippen? pippen is a big homo but that doesn't mean gay will be like him. pip had a great feel for the game. gay does not.

    further bird was on the all defensive 2nd team in his 3rd year. i wouldn't call that too much later on. he was always a good rebounder and he was always a great passer. bird was taller than morrison is. let's not forget that morrison was practically wearing high heels. he had the "tallest" shoes in the pre-draft measurements. yes morrison plays with heart and that is great but the guy is bad on defense and he isn't the passer bird was. he is an intense, white shooter that has decent size. that's the only comparison.

    http://www.nba.com/history/players/bird_stats.html
     
  6. mogrod

    mogrod Contributing Member

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    Of course, the same could be said of you. What, because Katz has a similar OPINION to you, it makes you right? No one knows how these players will turn out, there are questions about all of them. So, just shut up and stop being an a** to someone just because they have a different opinion to yours.
     
  7. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    His opinion is different that yours is what it boils down to. That can happen, and he can still be an effective ESPN reporter because of it, I think.

    Thanks for posting this though...it is a good data point on what Andy is hearing, and down the road to see if his opinions ever add-up
     
  8. imoffg33

    imoffg33 Member

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    this has nothing to do with a difference in opinions, this has to do with the berrating of andy katz. he's not chad ford. this guy is one of the best sports writers around. sure, ive been wrong about drafts before because i didnt do my research. i thought sean may would be great. i thought nachbar in houston would be good because thats what i heard on tv. if you do your research as a fan that wants to know about these things, you will know who is going to be good and who wont
    one thing i agree with him on is the fact that most if not all sports writers compare race to race and position to position. the rudy gay thing is starting to get on my nerves. tons of people are saying hes the next scottie pippen. lets look at this, was scottie ever #1 guy? no. was scottie ever anything without a star around him? no. scottie was really never that good, sorry but its true. does gay have incredible potential? yes, and the athletisism is there. the only question is how much does this kid want to play. he doesnt have great heart, but i would take a chance on him.
    the morrison to bird analogy is as pretty much right on, but you have to accept a few things. its a completely different era now as opposed to when bird played. no, morrison will not score 29 points a game, but he will get between 15-19 a game and be a very solid player. there have also been chris mullin analogies, that is because adam is going to become a complete player. ive said it before and here i go again, this guy is a gym rat. his heart and incredible work ethic drives him to become a much better player. he is bulking up as we speak. he is constantly practicing. his passing ability is vastly underrated. defense is lacking, but it will come, just like it did with dwade, kobe, whoever. if your in college and you are your team's only option, you dont play that much defense. its there, but its not great as of yet. will the rockets get him? no, hell be long gone, next.
    foye is another example of his teams only option. his scoring ability is incredible. he gives us an unparralleled slasher and he fills a number of our holes from the get go. maybe if we get him we could get away from And1's rafer alston and worthless bob sura.
     
  9. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    Certainly don't hold back in your first month on the site, I see.

    Please take note that I intentionally peppered my post with
    "I have a lot of respect for the real experts"
    "as far as I'm concerned"
    "IMO" / in my opinion
    "that I've heard of"
    "that I can draw"
    "looks like a flop to me"
    "Anyone else see it? Disagree with my take?"

    I am not a professional. I'm a guy on the internet. I'd like to think I know my stuff, and that people that have been on this site for a while consider my opinions credible. I started this thread to see if posters agreed with my take or not. If this came from the mouth of a no-name at a small radio station, I wouldn't have even paid it mind. I was surprised to hear Katz say so many things that were so far off from what I've thought about the top players.

    Yes, my take on Morrison is pretty low and I'm obviously in the minority because of that. I haven't scouted Bargnani this past year. That doesn't disallow my opinion on boards such as these.

    Also, one of my big gripes was the way Katz compared each player to players of a similar background, and no he's not the only one that does iit by far. But it does strike me as awfully shallow. Rudy Gay does not strike me as anything like Pippen. Bird is inaccurately compared to almost any white star forward in the past 15 years (and Michael with black guards). Foreign guys are only compared to other foreign guys. It's tiresome and closeminded, IMO.

    In no place in my post did I call Katz himself terrible or a deadbeat reporter. I called his analysis that I heard on Mike&Mike this morning awful, which is my opinion of it. I've got no qualms calling Sam Smith a loser.

    Once again, I opened this up as a thread to allow differing points of view than my own. This isn't a blog, it's a disscussion board. No need to flame because you have a different take.

    Evan
     
  10. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    use the enter key the make new paragraphs.

    anyhow... i hate scottie as much as the next person, but if you want to tell me that he wasn't that good then you don't know what you are talking about. he was one of the best defensive players ever to play the game. further he was a great passer and a very solid rebounder from the 3. he wasn't the scorer MJ was but you can't deny how great he was, especially when it came to the intangibles of the game.

    finally, if morrison comes in and averages 15/10/5 and plays somewhat not horrible on defense then i will say that you can start to make bird comparisons, but you can't now. the bird/morrison comparison is terrible.
     
  11. vwz

    vwz Member

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    Do as I say? Not as I do??

    A recent visitor to the Ozzie Guillen school of rhetoric??

    Please keep in mind that this is a public forum where your words will be read by kids, easily-influenced minds, and many, including myself, who will take offense to these words.
     
  12. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    i just meant when you are trying to have a discussion with someone. the point of the argument tends to get lost when you are insulting the person you are trying to reach. it's ok to call pippen names. he is a poofy fruit cake and i think he does go to madonna concerts and wnba games.

    ...and we do need to think of the kids since they are the future. their minds could become twisted and warped by words you only see on messages boards and never ever hear in school or in public.
     
  13. imoffg33

    imoffg33 Member

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    :eek: this is what i will be doing if the rockets screw this up tonight. lets all agree that in recent drafts (except yao) the rockets have been worthless. should we expect anything less?
    with the 8th pick in the 2006 nba draft the rockets select....
    some blind guy with one leg from croatia
     
  14. white lightning

    white lightning Contributing Member

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    Morrison averaged 5.5 rebounds per game his junior year. Bird averaged 15 per game his junior year. bird averaged over 30 points per game and 13 rebounds per game over all 3 years of college (playing in the big 10). Bird averaged 5+ assists his junior year to Morrison's 1.75. The stats are not close, my friend.
     
  15. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    lol :D
     
  16. Williamson

    Williamson JAMES HARDEN NUTSACK HUGGER
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    First of all, name calling isn't how things are done around here. This is a discussion board and we discuss things. We don't scream them at each other in fits of rage. I know we can all get passionate about things at times and at other times be sarcastic, play the smart ass, etc etc - but we try to keep ourselves in line here and keep things civil. This is no way to introduce yourself to the board. Emjohn is a respected member of this BBS. He's earned that respect by making great posts here for years. You've apparently been on this board a month and you're trying to rip him a new one. That's just bad manners and, again, it isn't how things are done here. That kind of behavior isn't going to win you any friends here and this is generally a pretty friendly environment. We'd like to keep it that way.
     
  17. vwz

    vwz Member

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    When did Indiana State get promoted to the Big 10?? Rebuttals are more effective if they rely on accurate facts.
     
  18. vwz

    vwz Member

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    1) I think it would be in everyone's best interest if folks stopped associating the minority sexual orientation with negative connotations.

    2) Just because others pollute doesn't make it okay for you to pollute
     
  19. white lightning

    white lightning Contributing Member

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    My bad on the conference, but numbers are still valid.
     
  20. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    It makes sense to compare Bargnani to other foreign players, because they share a background in common that is different from American players. They have a somewhat different set of challenges in coming to the league, the analysts have a somewhat different set of challenges in sizing them up, and they are trained with a different mindset. Since we know it is harder to determine how well a European player will do in the NBA than a college player, it makes sense to think of them as a group unto themselves.

    The Morrison-Bird and Gay-Pippen comparisons make little sense though. Instead of Bird, how about a sweet-shooting, no-d playing SF. Rice? Glenn? I don't know.

    In any case, Toronto can only hope Bargnani is as good as Gasol. He's no chump.
     

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