well if your gonna just say griff will be better than kg, this discussion ends here. enjoy. mcdyess will never get better? (btw; he IS an all star) your sillyness is great my friend. kinda like the force in star wars. and its getting stronger.
cat is not as good as miller. reef/brand/miller; i dont think you can flat out say one is better than the others. look at position, teammates, etc. brand in chicago didnt win. miller in cleveland doesnt win. reef in van and atl doesnt win. many factors. if you could only have 1, who would you have? id defintely not take reef, but brand-miller is close.
Why is that such a far-fetched opinion? He is doing the same thing as a starter as KG was doing his rookie year. Not saying it will happen, but I won't be shocked if it does. Guarantee if we were talking about Kobe Bryant his rookie year saying he will may be as good as MJ one day you would respond the same way. Yet, it happened (arguably, but MJ was the greatest, KG definitely isnt).
OK so what have you seen in Griff that makes you think he will not be as good or better than KG? Yeah yeah I know McDyess was an all star last year but wasn't he a replacement for Shaq? Isn't that why they had every power forward in the west on the all star team last year? McDyess is 26 and has been in the league since 95 so don't you think he is close to having reached the pentacle of his game? Certainly there will be no significant increase in his skill level.
You act like Miller is the next Magic or something. Miller is good. He is very good but he is not all world.
I still feel if the rockets aren't offering francis in the deal the caves aren't listening. It isn't like miller saying he wont play for the caves. He just wants the max. Say what you want, but miller is as good as francis. Every bit. Teams know how good miller is. Here is the deal I think would land miller. Francis Williams Cato for Miller Mihn Ilgulas (sp) If you don't like that deal, then forget miller. I personally would jump at the deal because it seems to me all things being equal miller can be a player that promotes team chemistry whereas francis must work at the chemistry ala jordan. Not to say francis can't do it, but it is much harder. Jordan took years to learn how to adapt his game to be somewhat team-oriented.
Has anyone seen how Clemson point guard Edward Scott plays? http://clemsontigers.fansonly.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/scott_edward00.html Granted that Houston wouldn't want to trade C. Mobley, and Cleveland would crazy to let Andre Miller go, how about considering another guard in Edward Scott, 6-1, 170lbs, Junior in Clemson. I've only seen his numbers on paper. I have not seen him play yet. I don't know if he will be NBA material, or if he will apply to be eligible. Clemson recently lost to Duke 98-88, with Scott scoring 20 points and dishing 8 assists. Or how about Fresno State's Tito Maddox? http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/titomaddox.htm Any comments? I think the Rockets need better passing. If Francis is staying, together with Mobley, maybe hoping for Andre Miller is too unrealistic.
ok fine, its not. but if thats what you believe, then dont bother trading. if thats your mindset for players, then who in the hell could even offer something that comes close to pleasing such expectations. i.e. why bother trading griff for kg when griff is younger and going to be better?
no i do not. but its funny you say this. you say this because i said hes better than cat. thus, it makes one wonder how YOU perceive your players. kinda works against ya.
mcdyess was not a replacement. hes not 26. & he can get better. i dont like you crash. your way too "not smart"-ish. and just so you can add to your list of "things you dont know about mcdyess" ...he likes jodeci ...studied polysci at alabama ...likes to bowl
andre miller is not as good as francis. the cavs lost what 11 straight WITH miller. that's not his fault as he is an all-star caliber point guard, no doubt, but no way that happens if you put francis in that same situation. the reason being is steve is much more capable of putting a team on his shoulders than miller who has to rely more on setting people up. that being said, i would love to team miller up with steve but he is not the franchise player that stevie is.
If Miller was as good as Francis, then Cleveland would have no problem paying Miller the max. And if the Rockets had a high draft pick, and the option came down to trading that pick and other(s) for Odom or Miller, I'd take Odom, the Rockets need a three, and even dating back to that draft, I think Odom will fit this team well.
Check the #'s. EG was better than Antonio and KG at 19. It's true. I finid it interesting thta Brand and Odom and Van Exel are held on such a high pedastel, but Stevie plays on a less talented team who wins a lot more. Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
was mcdyess even in the nba at 19? i doubt it. he was probably 21 as a rookie? your saying the rockets-francis are worse than the nuggets-van exel? wow, thats about the best complement my nuggies will ever get on this board!
The problem with using this argument in tandem with the Cat for Miller argument is that Cat is 27 himself, as I recall, even older than McDyess. However, players typically improve until around the age of 31, where they hit peak for a couple of years, and then decline with age and diminished skills. Increased acumen lessens this to a degree, but the skill is fading. Both McDyess and Mobley have good years ahead of them. Griffin definately has a lot of learning and improving to do, something that will come fairly quickly over the next few years. Will he be good? Probably. Will he be a superstar? Potentially. Will he be the best thing since bread? Probably not that good. If I had to win right now, I'd take McDyess over Griffin in a heartbeat. But the Rockets aren't aimed at winning now. And as for Mobley vs Miller (not directed at you crash) - I really don't see how it makes the Rockets better, especially as Eddie improves. Miller may be a very effective distributor of the ball and will definately get better - but the team already has a point and shooting guard who happen to be best friends and have great potential as a tandem together. At best, it's a lateral move. At worst, it hurts team chemistry and sets the team back a few years. In that realm, I wouldn't do it. Not to mention that it'd take more than Mobley to get Miller anyway. And beyond Mobley, Francis, and Griffin, it's unlikely the Rockets have anything besides their #1 pick this season that the Cavs would want.
-Griffin still has a ways to go before he will be as good as Garnett... he must continue to improve, and improve dramatically. Yes he is playing better than Garnett in his rookie year, but that doesn't mean he will be better than Garnett in the future. There's no reason to think that he won't make this improvment, but it's no guarantee as you are saying Crash. - I think Miller is a better 1 than Mobley is a 2. Miller is one of the top 3 in assists, the statistic most used to measure pg's. That means Mobley should be averaging 24,25 points on a high (44, 45%) fg percentage to equal Miller's value as a 1. -As far as Eddie versus Mcdyess, I think Eddie has a higher ceiling than McDyess. McDyess is already 27,28 and only has a few more years in his prime left. I also don't think that he can improve much more... he's been in the league 5 or 6 years, there's no reason to expect a big jump in skill level or numbers from the 6th to the 7th or 8th year. Eddie can be better than Mcdyess, he <i>can</i> be better than Garnett, but he still has a long way to go. Eddie is a rookie with tremendous room for improvement and the best thing is that he's not alll raw - Eddie has also shown much more potential than Mcdyess on the offensive end based on his shot alone.
After reading some of these post, it continues to baffle me how high some Rockets fans place on their players and how low they put on other teams players. This started out talking about Miller wanting the max, then it turns into the direction of cat, steve, mcdyess, griffin and everyone else. The thing about it is if Cleveland tries to trade Miller, it wouldn't be for a Mobley or someone like that. More than likely if they wer offering Miller, they could get Miles,Odom, or Meggatte or someone like that. I'm not saying they are better than Mobley, but if you're going to give up a star, you might as well get one that might turn into one. Also anyone who ever watches basketball would know that Francis,Miller, and Davis are on the same level. True Miller and Davis hasn't made the all star game, but its not their fault either. Both play in a guard dominated conference and both teams are mediocre to sorry, but aren't the Rockets? If Francis wasn't voted in by the fans, would the coaches have picked him? You could take those 3, switch teams, and it wouldn't be any different as far as results. Then somehow we got on the Mcdyess issue. Mcdyess is still growing as a player as evident by last yr's 20+pts and 10+rebs. He is only 26 and was 20 when he entered the league. Eddie can be as good as McDyess in a couple of yrs, but its not like Mcdyess sucked when he was 20 either. Griffin can be as good as he wants to be if he puts in the hard work. To see what work will do for you look at Camby vs J.Oneal. Why isn't Camby as good as O'Neal/ He's just as atheletic, been in the league just as long, plus he had 3ys of college. The sky is the limit for Griffin just like it is for a lot of young players its just a matter of how bad they want it. Cleveland is on the verge of doing something bad to their team just like the Bulls did with Brand. If you already have a young superstar, why trade him for a guy who might be one? Miller is a difference maker, but just like anyone else he needs players around him. Francis is the same way and Baron also. Unless its a big man, its hard to put one player out there and expect him to just dominate the game without very many good players around him. Francis needs help,Miller and Davis do too, but if the Cavs trade Miller without getting something very, very good, it will set that franchise back to the bulls level.
