i meant he would put up more numbers than Larry did. you really think Larry sees more double teams than Andre? you're nuts if you do. The best WR to go along side andre is Kevin Walter...KEVIN WALTER. Although kevin is solid, he isn't exactly scaring defenses. ok...now you really are nuts. yes it was impressive, but it's also the reason you are overexaggerating right now (i.e. most gifted ever). He did it on the big stage and got a lot of hype, rightfully so, but it's gone a bit too far. Unfortunately, andre hasnt had the chance to do that or we wouldnt be having this conversation. He's a heck of a player and I was a huge fan of hit at PITT. He is certainly top 3 in the league. Amazing player. That being said, Andre is just happens to be one spot higher than Larry...and there is nothing wrong with that.
oh, absolutely - i didn't mean to imply there was anything definitive gleaned from trying to compare two situations. BUT... if you're going to argue fitzgerald has played in a better offensive environment (which is probably, maybe true), you can't ignore that the better offensive enviornment may have negatively impacted his statistics. (BTW, boldin has been kind enough to miss 8 games these past two years - here're fitzgerald's # in those 8 games: 51/794/15.6/8 that's a half a season worth of games. project that out to a full 16: 102/1,588/15.6/16. i don't think there's *any* question larry fitzgerald is the best WR in football.)
I guess it’s the old chicken or the egg question. Are the Texans so pathetic in the red zone because AJ doesn’t catch TD’s, or does AJ not catch TD’s because the Texans are so pathetic in the red zone? AJ’s stats seem to mirror the Texans offensive stats. Close to unstoppable between the 20’s, but in the red zone….not so much.
I don't know if you can put one of them in front of the other, but to say Dre or Fitzgerald is hands-down better than the other is crazy. A few of the catches in big situations Dre made last year were downright ridiculous... <iframe id="multimedia_player" name="multimedia_player" marginWidth="0" marginHeight="0" src="http://www.houstontexans.com/includes/iframes/multimedia_video.asp?mm_file_id=2965" frameBorder="0" width="366" height="278" scrolling="no"></iframe> 1:17, 1:20, 1:32 are notable plays...I can't believe that 4th and 10 catch against Miami isn't there, but that was one of the best "plays" I've ever seen made by a receiver.
Since Carr left town, Andre Johnson has averaged just over 10 tds per 16 games (16 td in 25 games) and Larry Fitzgerald has averaged just over 11 per 16 games (22 tds in 31 games).
I'd put Andre and Larry at 1A and 1B. Ok, now that I've finished that discussion.... I am a big fan of Andre. One of the things that makes me like and respect him so much is his attitude. He's not one to go crazy on the field or in the locker room, he seems to respect his teammates and the people around him, and when I hear him in interviews he always seems like the down to earth type. I have more respect for those types of players and I tend to put them on a pedestal because they're usually pretty rare, a la Shane Battier. Pugs
i would absolutely agree. i don't use the term often (other than referencing this site, lol), but that catch right there was frickin' clutch.
alternatively, as a team, the Cardinals have 18 more TD passes over the last two seasons than the Texans...at the Texans pace, basically an extra season. It's impossible to argue that the reason the Cardinals have more TD passes is because Fitzgerald is a better scoring receiver and the reason the Texans have fewer is because they don't have the same type of scoring receiver in Johnson. Perhaps that is true, to a degree, but I don't see how any statistics could really isolate that out. What seems more accurate, from extensive viewing of Texans games and some viewing of Cardinals games, is that the Cardinals simply had a better schemed, more potent, better lead, well-balanced, scoring offensive attack. For all the accolades the Texans offense seems to be getting lately, it's like people have forgotten that it's not just Johnson, but the offense as a whole that was just a "possession" offense. When you're 3rd in yardage and 17th in scoring, there's something wrong with that efficiency. As a key part of the offense and the best play-maker on the team, certainly some of that blame goes to Johnson. But imo, not all or even a majority of it. The bigest issue seemed to be the lack of a short yardage running game, which meant even with first and goal inside the 5, it became difficult to score in any way other than passing, which the defenses knew and keyed in on. And last year's offense was the best they've seen. It's really difficult to believe that Andre, with his talents, with his ability to catch all types of routes, throughout the field, against various defensive coverage, wouldn't be grabbing a similar number of TD's as Fitzgerald in Arizona's offense and that the Texans wouldn't have similarly struggled to score with Fitzgerald in their offense. I am hopeful that they can become a more potent scoring offense this year, though I do think a lot of people have put the cart way in front of the horse on that assumption already, but we'll see. That doesn't mean Andre will catch 20 TD's this year, but can his TD totals to go from his 8 and 8 of the past two years to Fitzgeralds 12 and 10 (in 6 more games mind you)...absolutely.
No use arguing with Texan fans about this. Whatever, I tried. I'll bet anyone here that Fitzgerald ends up with more TD grabs than Johnson provided they play the same amount of games.
i completely agree with every single word. it's not all his fault but he also can't be absolved of all blame 100%. if you're going to toss around phrases like, "best all-around..." "gamebreaking..." "100 TDs if..." - there really can't be a deficiency in his game. and johnson has 2 rather big ones - regardless of fault. my point is only that maybe he isn't a gamebreaking TD machine anymore than steve slaton is a chain-moving, wide load short yardage back. and that that's *ok*
I'm not going to argue it either because I think they are 1a and 1b, just like pugsly said ... but to point to the numbers and say Fitzgerald is better is nothing. Fitz plays in a pass-oriented offense in a division including St. Louis, San Francisco, and Seattle. Those six games alone give him a numbers advantage vs Dre, who is going up in six games against Tennessee, Indy, and Jacksonville. you're probably right. TD grabs does not make him a better receiver.
Make all the excuses you want about quality of opponents, passing-oriented offense, etc... what he did in the playoffs and in the Super Bowl was god-like and that is why I'd give him the slight edge over Johnson right now. If the Texans make the playoffs this year, maybe we'll see his rebuttal.
If the Texans threw the ball as much as the Cardinals 'Dre would have similar TDs. (about 9% more throws for da cardz... the real problem is QB rotation and red zone ineffectiveness)
More passes, more passing touchdowns. Is there a problem with this in your mind? P.S. You don't always have to be a total **** when you disagree with someone.
The point is that you can't prove by any statistical logic that Fitzgerald is worse than Johnson, its all hypothetical. My logic: Fitzgerald played his best ball in the playoffs like a true clutch performer does. Thats why I'd go with him for the time being. You guys are acting like I pissed in your cheerios by saying that I'd take Fitzgerald by a hair over Johnson. Its just an opinion.
That hand flung pile of dung response you gave to my post makes me think you're the one who has some peepee in your cheerios, dude.
You're the one who was offended, and your post was nothing more than a short rehashing of the spiel that other people had said and added nothing to the argument. Pardon my ignorance. I will never blaspheme the name Andre Johnson in these parts again.
