When was Andre dominant? Look, this discussion always puts me on a side I'm not entirely comfortable with because I love Andre Johnson and think he's a tremendous player. But dominant? Megatron last year was dominant. Randy Moss in 2007 was dominant. I'm not sure Andre Johnson has ever had a dominant season. Keep in mind - most of the voters have had little to no exposure to Andre Johnson. The lack of TDs, especially in comparison to his peers, is going to be a glaring issue, I promise – let’s not give the writers too much credit. They’re mostly morons. I don't think so, re: 2 years. A productive playoff run (like Fitz had several years ago) that results in, at the very least, a SB appearance is far more important. If he doesn’t get that, he’s going to need to get into some rarified air, in terms of career #s, to get in without a ring. You’re missing the point – when his career is done, his numbers will be in the same neighborhood as many of those guys – and they’re not in. What sets him apart? This point is made often and it doesn’t hold a ton of water with me – he averaged 78 catches a year in the pre-Schaub era. He went to two Pro Bowls in four seasons. He was a very good, very productive WR during that era. And he couldn’t find the end zone with a GPS. Yes, some of that is on Palmer, Carr, etc. But some of it is on him, too. And some, frankly, is on Texan fans, who refuse to accept that Andre Johnson is what he is: one of the greatest possession receivers of all-time. He’s just not a gamebreaking, playmaking WR everyone argues he is. No shame in that. I think that’s a fair point – but it also illustrates the hill AJ is going to have to climb. Aikman (who does not have a HoF resume), Smith (who does) and Irvin (who’s borderline) are all in – to my knowledge, not a single member of that OL is in and they were *far and away* the best and most important part of those Cowboy teams. IOW, pro football writers are stupid. If AJ shows up without a ring, with a host of losing seasons, with roughly the same number of career TDs as Curtis Conway types… He’s going to face a tough battle to get in. Especially with a host of other equally worthy WRs out there who the writers have thus far shown little respect for. Look, I’m not arguing that *I* don’t think he’s worthy; I’m arguing what I think the perception of him is going to be among a group of people who don’t know as much about him as we do. I’d argue Jeff Bagwell, for instance, faces a similar obstacle (complicated by the PED witch hunt, of course) – his greatness is much easier to appreciate when you see him play everyday. These guys haven’t seen him play everyday.
I agree with you, but if TO had the same numbers as AJ he would not get in... the fact is that character issues have made a huge impact on wr's getting into the Hall of Fame. A lot of voters are going to look at the fact Owens has played for 6 teams and coming off a near 1000 yard season could not find anyone to sign him......
Huh? He has had two seasons with over 1,500 receiving yards.... good for #17 and #20 all time for a single season. He is #2 all time in yards per game for WR's. This year he is on pace for close to 1,500 yards as well. He has been dominant. If you want to argue that his career numbers are not high enough due to injuries or that he hasnt played long enough, that is fine.... but the dominant angle is not going to get you anywhere.
Do you remember when Andre was the first to lead the league in receiving yards in back to back years since Jerry Rice in 95?
true. It's a shame they shut him down due to injury for the rest of that 3rd season because he could have been the first to do it 3 times.
harrison? he had that one incident at a party but that guy is pretty solid. carter used to have issues but not since buddy ryan cut him.
Jerry Rice and AJ are the only two players in NFL History to lead the league in receiving yards for 2 consecutive seasons.....You were saying?
Andre had broken a lot of records and done things no other wide receiver has ever done. Lets not forget that.... Back to back 100 catch 1500 yard seasons also had like 8 or 9 ten catch 100 yard games in one season. Simply put dudes a bad man and he's not done yet he's on pace for his most receiving yards in one season and if he can get to 1500 yards he will trail only Jerry rice for most 1500 yard seasons by 1 Season. Call me old School but when you trail only the top dog in a lot of categories and your career is not over your pretty much a lock to get into the hall. Plus dre is a class act and the texans need a first hall of famer plus he's our first 10 yr player. There's just to much on his side for him not to get into the hall.
I do. When Jerry Rice did it, he scored 30 TDs and averaged 16.4 yards a catch. Johnson went for 17 TDs (despite 34 more receptions) and 14.5 YPC. In ’89, Rice ranked 1st in yards and TDs; 2nd in YPG; 5th in receptions and 9th in YPC. In ’90, Rice ranked 1st in receptions, yards, YPG and TDs; 12th in YPC. Average rank: 3.4 In ’08, Johnson ranked 1st in receptions and yards; 2nd in YPG; 9th in TDs; 33rd in YPC In ’09, Johnson ranked 1st in yards and YPG; 3rd in receptions; 10th in TDs and 20th in YPC. Avg rank: 8.1 Maybe we have a different idea of what constitutes dominant. Johnson certainly accumulated statistics those two years - but Wes Welker has the 2nd and 4th most single-season receptions all-time and you won’t find a soul who would label those seasons dominant. I mean… 17 TDs. Megatron scored 16 last year alone. Heck, total Johnson’s three *best* TD seasons (25) – Randy Moss had 23 in in ’07. I wouldn’t add any qualifiers – his career numbers are not high enough. Period. Health and longevity counts – they’re not going to slap a “yeah, but…” on his career and excuse missing games. Keep in mind, this discussion was prompted by the following post: “This season probably seals his ticket to the HOF.” If he retires tomorrow, he doesn’t sniff the Hall of Fame. Cris Carter is the standard. Johnson is going to need at least 3 full seasons maintaining his current career per game pace to catch Carter (in receptions and yards; he’d have to play 11 more seasons to catch his TD total) – and just *catching* Carter ensures nothing because that guy isn’t in the Hall of Fame. As I’ve said – a dominant postseason changes this discussion dramatically – but there are *a lot* of receivers with counting statistics that are not in the HoF. If that’s all he brings to the table, along with a piss-poor TD total and limited team success… Explain to me what sets him apart.
Do possession receivers average 13.8 yards per reception for their careers? Andre has been over 14 yards per catch many seasons, closer to a 15 average last 4 seasons. Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens averaged 14.8 for their careers. Serious question, I don't know. Watching the games he doesn't strike me as a possession receiver because he catches so many deep balls and can break short passes into long ones. I'm not disputing that his TD numbers are low, I just question the "possession receiver" tag.
Very impressive; you're right. But keep something in mind: there's a five-year waiting period for HoF eligiblity. If he plays 3-4 more years, he's not on the ballot for another 8-9 years. In a pass-happy league with a seemingly endless supply of great WRs, some of his impressive stats might not look that impressive when it's time to vote. I'll concede he has a better current case than I'm giving credit - but I think he's going to struggle to stand out among *a lot* of great WRs. That's why the TDs and a lack of team success are going to be huge obstacles.
Marvin Harrison killed someone. Carter had off the field issues early, but to this day is very unliked by many former players and the media.
You said dominant, you did not qualify it and now you are...and you sound like you are back peddling. Using your criteria there have been 4-5 dominant seasons in NFL history at the receiver position, and you are qualifying your own definition of dominance. Further concerning the idea that injuries are irrelevant, I guess you did not know Gayle Sayers is in the Hall of Fame...as is Earl Campbell. Being the best or one of the 2-3 best at what you do from year to year matters... And in the NFL Hall of Fame dominance matters over just raw accumulation of statistics. I don't think Johnson is a lock for the Hall of Fame right now, but what he has going for him is his dominance, excellent reputation and exceptional blocking. You will hear very few criticisms of Johnson from other players or coaches... And the Media has a higher opinion of him than folks in Houston think... I live in Chicago and he is always in the top 3 receivers mentioned... and unlike some receivers, he is not just a possession receiver (he has less targets but a higher % than other receivers) nor a system receiver.
I actually think a lot of receiver records will be broke cause of all the passing goong on but what dre has on his side is that only him and rice have done some of these things to this point and I think voters will look at that. I just think with how good he's been plus he's the best and only deserving texan he will get in. Hey now I do understand your case with everything you said but when you look at the numbers and records plus the Houston texans implications you can see why I atleast think he will be in the hof. I will say this had dre played on say the falcons his whole career he would not be a lock for the hof and would need 3-4 more yrs pace to for sure get in.
Coincidence that we have needed offensive fire power the last few games? Johnson steps up big when we need him most. A true professional.
I'm guessing we all have our own definition of dominance. (As well as elite, clutch, etc.) I didn’t qualify dominance until I was challenged on it and people brought their definition of dominance to the table. His 2008 and 2009 seasons were terrific; I just have a higher standard for dominant. Jerry Rice’s two cited seasons, in context, were clearly and obviously better. If AJ was dominant… then what was Rice? What was Moss the year he scored 23 TDs? Or Megatron last year when he averaged 100+ yards/game and scored 16 TDs? Heck, if he was dominant, why did he lag behind in too many statistical categories? You’re telling me the guy ranked 9th in TDs and 33rd in YPC was “dominant”? You’re talking about two players whose transcendent careers were cut short. That’s not Andre Johnson’s issue. He’s missed 22 games; not quite a season and a half. Not insignificant – but not enough to separate him from his peers. I think too many in this thread are sleeping on how ridiculous WR numbers have gotten. Hell, look at how TEs like Gronk, Gonzalez and Witten are putting up WR-like #s. It’s a pass-happy league and I just don’t see Andre sticking out of a very crowded group. Blocking? Did this suddenly u-turn into a discussion about Kevin Walter’s HoF chances? AJ’s a terrific all-around player, and that will matter – but he’s going in (or not going in) based on his ability to catch the football. Save the blocking discussion for Hines Ward. True but irrelevant. They don’t vote for the HoF. I think everyone acknowledges he’s great. But he’s a quiet guy who has played most of his career in football oblivion on a new franchise with no identity and minimal exposure. Again, there are guys with *huge* career numbers that aren’t in. You cannot argue Andre Johnson is more deserving than Cris Carter. Or Tim Brown. Or Torry Holt. Or Isaac Bruce. Or Andre Reed. So what distinguishes him from those guys?
Deservedly or not, he'll probably get in. Especially if the Texans have special seasons and post-seasons with him. The Texans and the Jaguars are the only teams without an hall of fame player. He'll most likely be the first Texan.
