Jefferies, Budinger, Hill and the 2012 NY pick for Iguodala. Lowry/Brooks Martin/Lee Iguodala/Battier Scola/Hayes Yao/Miller Not sure why anyone would think the Sixers are demanding a king's ransom for Iggy. The guy is averaging 13, 5 and 5 while being paid $12-15M. All while playing the same position as their shinny new 2nd pick Turner. I think had we tried to trade for him last year the price might have been higher. But the more time passes by, the more of an albatross his contract becomes, especially considering their (losing) situation. Before long, I think we will be able to pick him off for pennies on the dollar a la a repeat of the Evans/Martin stand off. An expiring, 2 prospects, and 1 lottery pick. Sounds about right.
How about OKC? They could, in theory, offer either Green or Harden, or both. (Or feature one with other scraps). That is, if Philly wants to build only and not shed salary. Be hard pressed to find a team that could compare to whatever we could offer though in young talent + exprirings + pick.
I think it's a bit much to declare matter of factly that none of those teams are players for Iggy. I don't think whether or not they're a playoff team matters -- they would be trading to upgrade their team for the future moving forward. We weren't a playoff team when we acquired Kevin Martin -- hell, we still might not be. GS has Curry, Udoh, Wright all on cheap rookie deals. Wright's value is probably pretty low seeing as he hasn't been able to stay healthy. But their draft pick would probably be comparable to the Knicks one we could offer -- nobody will know until the deadline really. Would they move Curry? He might be able to get a better talent than Iggy.. but they have Monta locked in long term at essentially the same position. How many years of missing the playoffs for GS will it take for their new ownership to realize Nellie ball doesn't work? I think at some point they will have to decide Monta or Curry. Sacramento is already having problems with Cousins, so I think they would be open to moving him in the right deal. They also have Landry, J Thompson, Whiteside, Greene and Casspi. Sacramento actually has a lot of good young talent on favorable deals. Clippers have nothing? Eric Gordon is better than anything we could offer. DeAndre Jordan, Bledsoe and Aminu are also good, young talent on cheap deals. The Wizards have McGee, Blatche, Thorton, Young and Yi to play around with. I'm not using a trade checker, I just looked over some of the teams that have been in the lottery for the past few years. Aaron Brooks is not a good trade piece for Philadelphia straight up; you would have to move him to a third team for a player that's more appealing to them. If you want to argue for the Rockets and include Brand in the proposal, that's fine. I thought we were talking about straight Iguodala deals in which Brand's cap relief wouldn't factor in. I still maintain that there is no way Philadelphia gives us their lottery pick for taking two of their best players off their hands.
Obviously this would be an all in type move, after committing to Iggy's contract. I think the talent would be there to compete with the elite. While no way being the favorites, it would be enough to edge into the elusive "contender" status.
This would possibly make some sense. Does OKC do it though and what do they gain with Iggy over Green and losing Harden besides? I think that trade is a wash at best for them. Philly may be interested in that though.
I think you are severely overrating either Iguodala the player, or his trade value around the league. He is a very solid player(capable of pushing a team on the cusp over the edge) being paid superstar money. To non-contending teams, the ones you listed as potential competition, his contract is an albatross. He is not enough to make them contenders, while locking up flexibility for years to come. His greatest value is to a team like the Rockets, where he could potentially be a key cog in completing the machine. There is NO way bluechip prospects like Curry or Cousins would be considered in any type of deal. Not only would the salaries be way off, they both have the potential to be much better players. Franchise players. As for the other suggested players like Udoh, Wright, J Thompson, Whiteside, Jordan, Mcgee, Blatche, Thorton, Young, Yi etc. C'mon those guys are trash. Guys like Whiteside and Greene can't even get on the court, while J Thompson was recently rumored to be offered(and declined) for Jeff Teague. Who? Guys like Thorton, Young, Yi and Blatche have been in the league long enough where the potential tags are off, left with only the bust sticker. Don't get me wrong. Budinger and Hill are no world-beaters either. But both have shown enough glimpses last year, while still leaving enough to the imagination to still be considered solid prospects. Meanwhile the 2012 NY pick is probably more valuable now than any on your list sans the untouchables Curry and Counsins.
Dude, GS isn't trading Curry. Wright has no value. And they're not going to give up on Udoh this early. And the Nets own their draft pick. They would move Monta for the right price. But if Philly is moving Iggy out, they don't want Monta and his deal. I'm sure Philly would jump on a Cousins deal. But I'm sure Sacramento won't. They don't need nor do they want an $11 million Iggy contract when they have a good young developing 3 in Caspi, and Evans is a ball dominator. Philly don't want Tyreke either if Sacramento did see their mistake and decide to blow Tyreke out. Eric Gordon is not on the market. He is on a rookie deal and is playing out of his head. Clippers are cheap. They're not trading Gordon for Iggy. Get real. Jordon is their young center and Bledsoe is their young point. Those guys are Clippers for at least 2 more years unless somebody offers up lottery picks for them. And the Wiz ain't gonna play around with McGee and Blatche. At least not right now. McGee is on a rookie deal and Blatche has a reasonable deal. Wall is the primary ball handler. They need shooters around Wall. Hinrich fills that role fine. The Wiz simply aren't moving their young pivot for Iggy. They may be willing to throw Thornton, Yi, and Nick Young out for Iggy.....maybe....but that's it. Oh, they'd unload Arenas for him in a heartbeat. But Philly doesn't want Arenas. None of those teams have anything that even comes close to what we can hand Philly.
I believe Philly has too many players. We would have to take someone back, or keep someone (like Hill) and maybe trade a TE to Philly.
They could get a third legit option. Someone who is a better all around player than Green or Harden. Having a trio of Durant-Iggy-Westbrook to move towards the future isn't that bad. Iggy does have the experience playing with Durant and Westbrook and it worked so well. It would be hard to lose both Green and Harden, but let's say OKC could just trade Harden and keep Green (An extremely doubtful move). That would be a great move for OKC.
So you admit that most of those teams have something that would top our offer, then conclude with "none of those teams have anything that even comes close." The two don't really go together. You asked who could top our offer. I named several teams (I'll give you Curry won't be dealt.. yet). Telling me that Eric Gordon isn't on the market isn't a compelling argument for you. What if I said Aaron Brooks isn't on the market so your offer was bad? The only untouchable on the Clippers is Griffin. Cousins has already been fined for an altercation with the coaching staff, so I doubt he's still highly regarded by them. I still don't know what you were trying to say about the Wizards. They ain't gonna play around? What does that mean? Of course the players I listed are on rookie scale deals/reasonable contracts -- why else would I mention them? I'll concede Curry, though I think the Warriors will be choosing from Curry and Monta in a few years. And the choice isn't as obvious as you think -- Monta is an EXPLOSIVE scorer. Cousins is already being fined by the Kings for altercations with the coaching staff. I know he has a lot of potential, but whether his attitude will allow it seems to be the big question right now. Watching Cousins play this year, I would not put him in the Curry franchise player category. Those guys are trash? Have you watched them play? I assume not.. or at least watched the ones who have played, ha. If you think Blatche is a bust, you need to buy League Pass and watch some Wizards games. Or just look at box scores if you're lazy -- he's legit. Teague is the heir apparent PG for Bibby -- the fact that the Hawks declined their PG of the future for another PF when they have Smith/Horford shouldn't need explaining, and it isn't a knock on JT. I don't want to go one by one for each player listed -- some are obviously worth more than others (Wright/Yi might be the weakest). But you're talking about comparing them to Chase Budinger, a SF who can't play defense. His best strength is supposed to be his shooting (I'll leave this year out of it) -- and yet last year he was only 37% from downtown. Not exactly earth shattering. I think most teams, if given the option, will want the 2011 swap, not the 2012 NY pick. I think we tend to hype up our own players/trade packages. If you believe we can land a star player with Brooks & Budinger, I think you'll find yourself severely disappointed. Especially if you think Philadelphia would bite on that deal, seeing as they have no need for AB.
Keep drinking the kool-aid. Wake me up when we land Ricky Rubio or Chris Paul with our vast collection of mediocre talent.
I think that Iggy is Houston's if they want him, and, they won't gave to give too much in return. I'd take Brand if they throw in 2 first round picks in return for Brooks, Jeffries, and hill... And probablyneothet battier or bud although I'd hate to see them both go. And oh yeah what ever happened to that guy Patterson?
Iggy is not a difference maker though, he is not a guy that can lead a team...it may be a step forward, but it is not a significant one.... And with his contract we are hampered from making that significant step forward. DD
This is an argument for another day, but I'll just say that they won't choose a chucker over a Steve Nash. I agree that Cousins is not in Curry's category, but I listed them together because they are both untouchable. Fines and altercations notwithstanding. I have watched them play, and I have league pass almost every year. Blatche is not trash. He is hot stinkin' trash. Ok he has put up some nice boxscores(indicative of nothing) on a perennial cellerdweller(indicative of even less). But if you actually watch the games, not "looking at the box scores if you're lazy", then you would know that he is one of the dumbest players in the league. No. THE dumbest player in the league. I'll give you Teague, but it just shows you the Kings are pretty much giving up on Thompson. Which wouldn't be the case if he was such a great prospect. I never said Budinger and Hill are earth shattering. Actually I specifically said they aren't. But they are not so far off from some of the players you've listed, and substantially better than others. Agreed. So if push comes to shove then give them the 2011. I never said anything about trading Brooks, that was the other guy. I don't even think we need to trade Brooks. Like I stated in my previous post, while we may overvalue some of our own players, you are SEVERELY overrating Iguodala. We may not be able to land a star player with Brooks and Budinger, but Iggy is a bit below a true star player himself. And as with any deals, you have to consider the financials as well. Iggy's contract and current situation means that we have the potential of getting him at below his market value.
For a guy who thinks we are a CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER. NOW. "A step forward" from there seems to be worth while, no matter the cost. No? But in all seriousness, you are contradicting one of your own threads, "Is going for a superstar a real strategy?" If we are truly on the outside looking in with the real superstars- CP3, Melo etc. then our ONLY choice is to settle for a near star like Iguodala, who wouldn't have a say in where he wants to go. Why worry about his contract hampering us from that significant step forward, presumably in acquiring a true superstar, when you doubt the "superstar strategy" to begin with? I don't think we are a contender like you do. But I don't think we are THAT far away, given an eventually healthy Yao. I think adding a guy like Iguodala could be enough to... at least give us a chance. It would have to be the Detroit model, with 5 near star players. We currently have about 3 and a half. Need pretty much 1 more to go.
I don't think you can overlook 'altercations' in this instance. His willingness to learn and accept coaching should play a big role in how the franchise views his potential for future growth. Obviously you were exaggerating on Blatche being trash, but I guess we can agree to disagree. After Jamison and Butler were traded last year, he took over that team and was their legit first option on a nightly basis. With Wall in the picture and Arenas back his scoring has dipped a little, but he's still been pretty darn good for them -- I think Washington envisions him in their team going forward as opposed to wanting to dump him on someone. And I didn't mean to suggest Jason Thompson or any of those players (save possible Gordon) on the list are franchise players. I was more, in my mind I suppose since I didn't do a good job explaining, comparing them to the 'young talent' we have. I like Jason Thompson a lot more than Hill, Budinger, etc. is the point I was getting at. Apologies for crossing arguments -- I was originally debating an Iguodala/Brand/1st round pick deal (ridiculous) that kept shifting each time he posted again. Then you came in on his heels so I may have mixed up what you were saying. I don't mean to suggest that Iguodala is a tier one, stud player. He's not. But I do believe he's in that tier two area, somewhere right by Granger. My signature was about my preference for adding Iguodala over Martin -- but it didn't happen. Whether that's because Philly backed off, or Morey liked Martin more, we'll never really know. But if Andre Iguodala was on this team, he would be our best all-around player (assuming a non-healthy Yao). He's a better defender than Battier, runs the break better than anyone, and is more of a playmaker than Martin is (meaning he's better at finding people off his own dribble penetration.) He's also better than Martin at getting off his own shot in 1on1 situations, so I'd probably prefer him taking the last shot as opposed to Kmart. His numbers are down this year, but we're 8 games into the season, so relying on that would be silly.
To clarify, I said we are a contender IF....Yao is healthy.....well.....he isn't...and he is limited in minutes. So, that being said....I like Iggy and think he is an upgrade, but he is not THE upgrade. He would be another step towards staying in the land of near contender status... DD
If we do deal for Iggy or whoever, I hope we don't wait right till the deadline because it will take some time to pickup Adelman's system. Martin, who apparently, already new the offense pretty well struggled quite a bit last year after the trade. I know I want the best deal possible but if we plan to win this year then the sooner the better on a trade.
