An Israeli Looks at Israel's Response to Non Violent Protests

Sad to hear that, because I think most of your arguments were based on emotion, and once facts were presented to you civilly (such as the Palestinian non-violence movement being squelched, Palestinian negotiation efforts attempted where they were bowing over hand and foot to Israel, and the fact that Israel sells arms to China), you conspicuously chose to ignore them.

 

The statement about the threat to Israel from a Palestinian state doesn't come from Finklestein. It comes from a former Israeli ambassador named Abba Eban.

If you believe the former ambassador from Israel was an irrational fanatic who made idiotic arguments that's up to you. But please don't blame Fink who was only quoting them.

Finklestein agrees that Israel has a right to exist and be secure but simply wants the same criteria applied to Palestinians. That isn't really fanatical. It also doesn't sound like he hates Israel.

By the way Neo-Nazis also probably hate the common cold. Does that mean we should come out in favor of the common cold to make sure we take a different position than them?

 

Are you comparing Israel and Jews to a disease? Interesting that you would do that.

 

drunk already?

 

no, though it's interesting that you would think I was comparing the two. How did that idea creep into your head? Interesting that you would do that.

And you did it not too long after you referred to a former foreign minister and ambassador of Israel as a fanatical idiot.

 

Norman Finkelstein is a former foreign minister and ambassador of Israel?

 

nope and he's also not the one who came up with the quote about ISrael having as much to fear from a Palestinian state as the Soviet Union did from Luxembourg. As I said before it was Abba Eban the former foreign minister and ambassador of Israel.

It was Eban's idea that you called fanatical and idiotic.

 

This statement doesn't acknowledge the circumstances here. The Israelis live on land that was stolen from the people that already lived there when it was partitioned. They then captured additional land, some of which they gave back, when other countries joined together to take that partitioned land back. Israelis now exist on land that isn't theirs, occupy territory that isn't theirs, and can control all aspects of Palestinians life by virtue of the financial and military power the US has invested in that country due to lobbying by Jews and Israeli supporters. The Palestinians are effectively reduced to the status of a complete dependent, under the rule and whim of Israel. Reduced to that level of inhumanity, do I find it reasonable that Palestinians would use otherwise barbaric means to fight back against their oppressors? Yes, I certainly do. When your existence is at stake, you will do whatever is necessary to ensure your survival. You and I would do the very same.

And to be clear, Palestinians don't have the express ability to fire anything into an Israeli school from outside of Israel. They fire rockets indiscriminantly because that is the limit of their technical ability due to Israel's embargo of those people. I have no doubt their tactics would change if they had the ability to attack Israeli military targets directly. Your opinion is like blaming the blind man who is under attack for kicking someone in the groin.

Also, I don't make any excuses for the irrational Muslim or Arab hatred of Jews. That is completely unacceptable. That Palestinians and their supporters hate Israelis though is perfectly rational.

 

most of your responses in this thread have been emotion-based. i only deal in fact and i do it with great civility.

what is "saddening" is how much israel acts like nazis. the israeli government is acting just like hitler did when he was creating more "living space" for all the germans.

i saw a frontline documentary a few years ago on the settlements and i was shocked at the rhetoric from the jews - they sounded just like nazis - "this land is for jews only - we will not share this land - muslims cannot live here". it was a real eye-opener for me.

for the record, most jewish people i know (i know alot) are absolutely against the israeli government and their treatment of the palestinians.

 

i was going to respond to ATW's posts, but then i remembered that he is the most anti-muslim poster on this board and everyone knows it. it should be obvious to all where he is coming from.

 

This thread is anti-Israel, not anti-Muslim.

So you are saying that if one is not anti-Israel, that means you are anti-Muslim?

Plus, I have stated many times that I do not agree with Israel's settlement politics. I just don't like the Israel hatred that I can read between the lines in many posts here - CometsWin pointed it out as well (I don't think Palestinians' hate against Israel is rational, but at least one could see where they are coming from, I guess.)

 

The funny thing is, no one ever discusses the Palestinian Christians, its not a Muslim/Jewish issue, its an issue of humanity. Ramallah is approximately 25% Christian, that is not an insignificant minority.

 

That's a good point that many people forget and many Christians are political leaders in Palestine. Also George Habash was a Palestinian Christian and headed the group Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine that was a terrorist group that engaged in the hijacking of airplanes and attacks on airports.

At this point though the Christian population of Palestine has been shrinking to where it is less than 10%. Most Christians have immigrated to other countries due to the instability and hardship of the occupation.

 

The funny thing is, no one ever discusses the Israeli Muslims, its not a Muslim/Jewish issue, its an issue of security. Israel has Muslims in the Knesset and Israeli Muslims are the only Muslims in the Middle East that enjoy a truly free and democratic state. Unfortunately taking into account the number of Muslims in the Middle East, they are a statistically insignificant minority.

Any Jews in positions of power in Islamic countries?

 

^The reason why is because the United States poured money into stable but tyrannous dictatorships like Mubarak's Egypt and King Abdullah's Jordan just because they unilaterally support Israel.

now that the Arab world is freeing itself, Israel suddenly finds itself in a zero-sum game with its' neighbors---ironically, for all the crowing about being the only true democracy in the Middle East, Israel seems rather uneasy to be surrounded by nascent democracies.

incidentally, any Africans in positions of power in Confucian countries?

 

How much US aid has gone to Iran and Syria? Are those dictatorships propped up by the US?

Pretty easy to see why when they are often wrapped up in Islam. Like the popular Hamas government in Gaza, political change that leads to Islamic parties taking power has not historically been in Israel's interest. I haven't seen anything about Israel moving against any of these nascent democracies though. Netanyahu seemed rather supportive of them, at least in theory, and said that he was sorry to see the first such uprising (in Iran) put down so brutally.

While I don't think this is relevant (unlike the question I asked), I don't know of any native African that is currently in power in any non-African country (though the birthers where hanging rather tenaciously to their theory until recently ).

 

Well, Iran was until they started, you know, democratically electing their leaders and nationalizing oil supplies based on the will of the people. trust me, if the Ayatollah wasn't a raving anti-American (as those who have seen their democracies destroyed by force tend to be) and a good supporter of Israel, America would be stepping on itself to rush military aid to Iran, just as it did with dictatorships in Jordan, and Egypt. Same theory with Syria. It doesn't matter how politically free of a nation you are to the United States; if you provide them something useful (the corrupt House of Saud) or support Israel (the recently deposed Mubarak), they'll support you until, you know, the people are threatening to overthrow your entire regime.

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UH...

it's relevant because you asked if a very small minority of people some would say were imposed on a region were in political power in wildly disparate countries far from their traditional base of power, where they would, at best, be again very small minorities in each individual country, and tried to use that to prove---I don't even know. The Arab minority in Israel that has power are only the few that would cobble down to the power that has stripped them of their own lands, where they should technically constitute a ruling majority.

Your question is therefore about as relevant as asking how many Americans are in positions of power in China's Politburo, or how many Canadians are in positions of power in the Israeli Knesset, which is to say, it's not relevant at all.

 

So citing one quote without representing the whole context is the best way you're going to play the game?

I take it your ignorance is already shaken since once again, your post lacks complete objectivity.

Last statement says it all, stop instating a premise that doesn't exist.

Now tell me which person is more likely to be a nazi?

The person that hates a jew? or the Person that hates a country, specifically for policy reasons?


I'll give you a hint, this person is german.

Once again, I'll mirror your own bull**** right back at you.

 

don't you get why he cherry picked that statement, I can't believe he thinks we're really that stupid. As if taking a quote like that out of context is going to bring anything other than ridicule.

That is clear trend from his posts.

"Yada Yada yada at least they aren't suicide bombers, yada yada you only agree because you hate israel."

I say leave him alone. He only says that because he hates Jews with independent beliefs, like norman finkelstein.

 

I too am getting this vibe, he just can't stop with the insults towards the jewish people.