How is he at the bottom of the list? You said he was on the lower end of those top 20 in 3s made. Then he's at the bottom of that list, not the overall nba list. The points i made don't exclude each other. On the other hand, you started out saying he shot a bad percentage, it was a bad vs good argument. Now you're up to "he's adequate or maybe respectable, but not good". Now it's a he's ok vs good argument. So my point remains, he's not doing ad poorly as you originally thought. He's not doing good, but thats never been anyone's point.
Bruce bowen was packaged and traded away also. Why did jackson become a lead dog and he makes the same as shane also. Like I've said, athletic doesn't mean dumb as it is perceived on this board. Its like against the rules to do both and thats not true at all. Yes, you are the one trumpeting langhi,novak,v-span and guys like that because they "space" the floor vs whether the guy can get buy someone on a unequal closeout. i don't hate shane at all, i've said it many times, i just think he's overblown big time on this board. Its funny you bring scola in it just like you falsly claimed i ever called him scrubola or some other silly nickname. I've said scola is ac green/udonis haslem type and you've maintained he's more, that's what our disagreement has been about. When shane plays well, i say it, but when he plays like garbage, its not because of points rebounds and other stats, its because he played like garbage and didn't get into the game. Most people like to say well you didn't see this or i didn't see that or no stat can count what he just did. I can see he was like -100 against utah 2 yrs ago. I can see he's a - whatever this year also. I don't even need those numbers to tell me the story, i can just watch. I can see a defender overplay him and dare him to go to the basket 10 times a game. I can see teams put their 6ft pg on him and dare him to do something. I can see the legs looking slower and guys beating him off the dribble more and more. I can see those things and if you cant, you're not watching the game.
Battier's presence is being hindered by Ariza. It's kinda like having 2 subwoofers in your home theater, but at different locations. There is a lot of noise cancellation and you are better off with just 1(or stack the 2). Ron Artest and Battier was more like a stacked pair of subwoofers so they only made each other better. Probably due to their different styles. Artest was more in your face and physical, Ariza is basically a slightly inferior man defender than Battier with a bit more gambling flair. Battier and Ariza shouldn't see significant minutes together, if any time at all. Their redundancy is starting to show on defense, and has been showing quite some time on offense.
He was touted as a guy who could do what? Evereyone and their mama knew what ariza was. he was suppose to be a slashing guy who could defend and knock down a open shot. He was also a guy that off steals,rebs,or blks can turn and run in transition. Thats what he can do and thats what he is suppose to do. I didn't think ariza was a 1st,2nd, or even 3rd option on a title team. He was a guy that showed last year he would step up and make a play in a crucialpart of the game. Thats all, or at least thats what i thought he was. I used the term the new jerome kersey. 12-15ppg 5 rebs for mle and a 24yr old. Anything over that is gravy.
so you're really going to use Wade as an example of how bad a defender is? Did Drob just suck on defense in 96 or was Hakeem just that good? And how often do we see any small forward guard opposing points and two guards? I'm pretty sure if Battier stuck to guarding opposing small forwards very few would claim he lost foot speed, of course except for when he guarded Lebron. That sounds more like a problem with our point guards not being big enough at times to guard opposing points and the team not having a legit two guard to guard SGs, but battier takes the blame for trying to take on that role, which is role we need at times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it makes him look silly. chuck worked on KG, but he looks silly against Howard. It happens when you're lacking in certain spots and you move guys out of position to make up for it.
So basically our staff doesnt know what they're doing? It couldnt possibly be the other players can't produce enough in other areas besides the boxscore to stay on the court?
Yeah this year after it was clear he was washed up. Jackson is a moron, an idiot, dumber than a box of hammers.....a moron......but, he is a good BBall player, a quick thinker, able to react quickly on the floor, but his personality flaws will stop him from EVER leading a team anywhere. He is JR Rider like, just a little less volitile. A. Langhi - man swing and a miss, but completely different team and years ago. B. Vspan - Only wanted him to play backup minutes to see if he could replace a crappy Rafer Alston. C. Novak - utter nonsense - I was never on him as a player...I thought he was what he is...a Matt Bullard bit player at best. Get by someone? Yeah, I like that, it is why I love Von Wafer......what does that have to do with anything? Dude, you have hated on him since the Rudy Gay trade, don't duck and run now.....your posts are too easy to dig up about the subject, don't be scared. And you said Scola was much worse than that and his UPSIDE was at their level, arguably he is already better than both.... I see him against DWade struggling after playing 53 minutes 2 nights before. At the same time I see Kobe shanking against him, and Lebron in Houston doing the same. But the one thing I always see is Shane in the right position, making them WORK for every point...... The problem is that in everything you say, you fail to talk defense, it is always about getting by your man, creating space on the shot etc..... Shane is what he is a SOLID role player, why do you expect more? He is not paid more, he is paid EXACTLY like he should be........ Now Trevor, I don't see you saying much about him, yet, he is struggling more than Shane is this year, why is that? DD
Well, DD said because adelman played shane so much 2 nights ago his legs were dead. So tell me? DD, say what u will, but when he goes to teams and make hem instantly better, thats says alot about the guy as a player. Never said he had to do a psa or write speeches for the president. Whether you believe it or not, I like shane, but i treat him just like any role player and like you said, every player has a shelf life. Shane's shelf life is up as a starter just as it was for rafer. As i said before, this team was good defensively because of Yao, not shane. David wesley was a better player in the rockets uniform than shane. He got old,he got traded, that was the end of that, but because he's media friendly and all, the DD's of the world are scared to criticize him. When he stands in the corner, doen't run on the break and all that stuff, its cool because its shane, but if thats ariza doing the same, run theat scrub out of town.
Shouldn't the alleged best wing defender on this team be taking on other teams' best players? If Battier fails to defend most of them then what else can he offer? 5 points a game? How much does Chuck get paid and where did we pick up Chuck?
DD, go dig on your 3rd computer you have on now and tell me what i said about scola. I said he's at his peak, he's maxxed out, and he's ac green type of guy. You were the one touting him as a alls star 20-10 since yao will be out, not me.
And we have seen so far this year that ariza has done a much better job on kobe than the kobe stopper
Battier doesnt fail to defend them???? He gives you solo coverage on the opposing team's best wing defender every game. Most times they are held to or below thier average. Why is this so hard to understand?
So did ray allen and paul pierce in the finals and you don't see articles being writen about their defense or supposed defense. tayshaun played him straght up also and when rip switched on him, they didn't panic.
Shane Battier is overpaid for what he brings to the table. He may have once been worth the money, but today's version of Shane is overpaid. He's not grossly overpaid, which is why you never really hear about him.. but 6.8 million for a guy whose defense is on the decline and brings almost nothing to the offensive side of the floor? That sounds a lot like Chuck Hayes.. who makes a third of what Shane makes. Shane is NOT being "paid EXACTLY like he should be", sorry. What are you basing Trevor struggling more than Shane on? Offense? I guess that's the only thing you really can base it off of -- IMO, Trevor has surpassed Shane as our best perimeter defender. That said, Ariza's been asked to carry an offensive load for us this year. Shane, for being the "leader" and "stabilizing presence" on our team, wasn't expected to shoulder a greater loud offensively. Why? Because the Rockets, you, and I all know he's incapable of it. I'm not trying to say Trevor isn't struggling offensively - but I think it's unfair of you to compare Trevor's offensive struggles in comparison to Battier without also noting the lack of anything Shane brings on the offensive side of the ball. Ariza is a much better fit for the current Rockets than Battier is - I don't think that should even be debatable. Added to the fact that Ariza won't make as much or more as Shane makes this year until 2011-2012, I think it should be clear which one the Rockets should choose over the other should it come to that.
Except he cant hit an open shot, he rarely slashes effectively and his defense is lazy. He does get steals thats true, but he rarely blocks shots. His transition game is awful because he cant dribble. All this at the bargain basment price of pretty much the same amount of money Shane is making??? You sure do give this guy a pass easily despite being a worse offensive AND defensive player than Battier, who does what he is supposed to do, knock down an open shot, hustle and play tough smart D. Obviously Shane isnt a 1-3 option on a title team, thats what the OTHER FOUR POSITIONS IN THE STARTING LINEUP ARE FOR.
