An Honest Assesment of Shane Battier

So you're blaming Shane for the Rockets drafting Rudy and trading him for Shane?

 

He hasn't? When people are discussing a change in the starting lineup, I'd say removing Chuck Hayes gets as much if not more play than removing Shane Battier.

 

Simply put, Battier helps the team win. I know that it's hard to accept that because you can't easily quantify his contributions. That's what makes a guy like Morey so important. He can recognize these things when others don't.

Here's a great article about Battier from the NY Times by Michael Lewis the author of Moneyball. It's been posted here before but it's a good read and it contains some good expanations of Battier's value to a team vs his statistical contribution.

Bottom line is that Battier helps his team win more games. Does he guarentee you a championship? Nope, he simply gives you a better chance to win. I fully understand that most people will still not buy into Battier's true value, but Morey obviously does. Hopefully, the rest of the NBA won't ever understand these hard to measure contributions like Daryl Morey does.


Here we have a basketball mystery: a player is widely regarded inside the N.B.A. as, at best, a replaceable cog in a machine driven by superstars. And yet every team he has ever played on has acquired some magical ability to win.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

 

You may have played the game Leeb, but your thoughts on how to build a winning basketball program are pretty wack.

To consintently bash players like Scola and Battier because they can't jump through the roof, and tout losers like Ricky Davis as an example of someone that can make the team better. I mean that is lol funny.

Shane is not anything more than a GREAT role player, a guy who dives on the floor, plays hard and doesn't....(please pay attention this is important) make mistakes.

Coaches LOVE players like that, they execute the game plan and do what is asked of them and make the team better.

I don't blame Battier or Ariza, but I think Trevor is struggling MORE than Shane is right now.....

I blame the COMBINATION of Battriza, that is the problem the redundancy of both players is not adding any contrast to the team and is allowing other teams to gang up on our better offensive players like Brooks, Landry and Scola.

To blame Battier, when he is playing his role is just flat out ignorant.

DD

 

Seems to me like Shane gets it a ton more than Hayes.

 

What do you mean by "honest" assessment? I'm sure glad its not dishonest

Its not like Shane has an ugly contract. Sure he has no offensive game and its standing out more than ever this season with our lack of offensive weapons. His intangibles don't stand out in the box score, but I'm glad we have him on the team.

 

Honestly, Chuck should be replaced too, if they had a better option...heck, they need an upgrade at center and SG...those are our areas of weakness.

But Shane would fit in fine with that, as would Trevor......

Blaming one guy, who is arguably the smartest player on the floor, and doing exactly what is asked of him, not to mention is the team leader.......Ugh....

This thread should be called "How not to build a winning basketball team"

Or "Where would the spurs have been without Bruce Bowen"

SHEESH

DD

 

well two of those guys lit us up big time, that happens and i think that was just a situation where you do what it takes to stop a player. I dont think it was necessarily a knock on battier, but giving respect to the other players, especially Jax, who was just insane and hitting some contested shots. That just doesnt seem like a lot to me, Even yao or deke get taken off certain guys if things arent going well. And those guys you listed are pretty good, locking them up is hard for anyone out there when they're hot.

 

Shane is shooting below his career average this season, while taking about the same amount of shots as usual. He is still shooting above 36% at the 3, which is respectable.

My guess is that not having a true play maker on the team hurts his efficiency. He needs to be set up for open looks. Having Hayes and Ariza, instead of Yao and McGrady, in the starting lineup makes a lot of difference.

I don't see any slip in his defensive performance overall.

As leebigez pointed out, there are other good perimeter defensive players who can knock down an open 3. But none of those guys are as smart as Battier. Battier is the on court defensive coach. His defensive value is not just in 1-on-1 plays, but team defense. I used to underestimate the importance of team defense until JVG converted me. Shane has been the main piece of our team defense for a long time.

 

LOL you are a flip-flopper. You constantly bash Trevor, just as much as I do the same thing to Shane, but at least I'm not shamed to admit I could be a bit too harsh on him sometimes. We all have the need to vent after a frustrating loss and there's usually one scapegoat taking the blame for the whole team, for me it's the worst player in the starting line-up who in my opinion is Battier. It has nothing to do with his poor athleticism but it's his total incompetence on offense that makes him the weakest link of a chain. I too know where my limitations are when I play basketball and usually doesn't do too much things that are out of my reach. Does that make me a better player than another mediocre player who tries hard? You talk about production but the stats say otherwise, what about taking the coach's perspective? We can't tell what coach Adelman has in mind and you made an argument on Shane's minutes, well Ariza is averaging more PT than Battier right now, what does that tell you? Coach Adelman somehow trusts one more than the other? If C-Bud is to be taken starter role why should Ariza be the one to bench? Trying to impose your perspective by volume-posting doesn't help your case at all.

 

I'd also add that people seem to forget that Battier came AFTER Yao. And that with a healthy Yao, what one needs IS indeed players like Battier - excellent role players - particularly those with decent enough foot speed and lenght to play great 1 on 1 D, good help D, in addition to solid perimeter play.

On perimeter play, yes I do think Battier's offense has come and gone. Some was the result of health, but even then, I think it's normal to be streaky. But where Yao used to cough up turnovers of over 5 per game, Battier is a much welcome addition to tip that balance back in our favor with good D, decent shot blocking, and again, hustle plays.

Supposedly, he's feeling better this year than in years prior, and I would say he does look somewhat quicker in spurts this season. He is the ALPHA of ALPHA dogs even before Artest flew in for a one year stint. Not to mention that he is a good communicator. Yes - some of you may think this is all fluff now, but honestly, even with Yao's improved English, do you honestly think Yao can inspire through words, on and off the court, the way that great on-court leaders can???

Bottom line - it helps to have an articulate leader esp. if you believe the sport is indeed a team sport with benefits that come with better team play. And on that note, Battier is truly the consummate team player.

theSAGE

 

i wouldnt say it's as detrimental...ariza's actions arent really giving anyone a chance but himself, but battier's actions at least give a chance to others at least half the time...

 

When no one on the team is capable of getting themselves a good shot, someone has to take the bad shot. If Ariza decided to play more passive, like Battier, how exactly would that benefit the Rockets?

 

this is why you need to look at more than the "average" stats. Battier has a horrible first week of the season and he's shot horribly again this month, but those two months in between he shot close to 44% FG and about 38% from three. Those % may not be mind blowing but it's not as bad as you make it seem. In your eyes he shot badly all season, but truly he's shot at a decent percentage most of the season. Problem is when he shoot poorly it was really low so it lowered his average numbers significantly.

Just go back to high school, didnt a zero completely ruin your average, even when most of your grades were solid ? If a zero brought you down to a C, is it fair for me to say you're an average student if most of your other grades are above average?

As for picks. He recognizes when he can create a mismatch by picking a player, a good example is when LAndry got that dunk a few games ago where he pointed at his brother. Clutch pointed out how battier's pick set him free for it.

I'm not sure why his low post game is an issue when he's a perimeter player. You're talking about it like he gets low post opportunities by the bunch, but it's rare if he does it twice in a game. I'm not even sure he does it every game, but either way, his hook is actually pretty effective. You don't want him posting up all the time since that is his only move, but how many 2 or 3s have any low post moves? It would only be a knock if he overdid it, and he doesnt.

 

I think Shane Battier is the heart and soul of this team. His mentality and the leadership that he brings is a huge part of why the rockets are where they are today, without yao and tmac. His offense does really frustrate me at times. But you gotta admit when they go in, it always feels like a big shot when he makes a 3. lol. Without our superstars on this team, every player is trying to do more than what they would do before. Factor that in, plus the ridiculous schedule we've had to deal with, our players are tired. Thats why we've lost however many games recently. We've had one of the worst schedules in the nba, if not the worst. So i think that plays a huge deal on shane's losing a step in defense. That and hes become a pretty big help defender. When compared to earlier in the season, for example the first lakers game and cavs games. Shane Battier did a very good job on kobe and lebron, both those games were in houston and he was able to contain them. and we won both those games. Shane Battier is not a star, but he's a super role player that would benefit any team.

 

an honest assessment of Shane is that he the the consumate role player. He may be overvalued a bit, but he's a selfless player and still a pretty good defender, takes lots of charges and is a player that I want on my team. He's only good on offense if he's free for a 3 and with the lack of double-teams that the rockets receive without Yao, his offense takes an even worse hit, but he is still considered by Morey to be an integral part of assembling a championship caliber team. He does so many things that don't come up on the score sheet.

 

Is it ok to make Yao run if that's the "role" the rockets need next year?

Is it ok to make Ariza a top scoring option becuase that's the role they need him in this year?

I dont think that's a fair question. The rockets are in a bad position without a true shooting guard and a center. That makes anyone who's trying to fill that role look pretty bad. I mean, look at our centers, they all suck at shot blocking, our wing defender is leading the team in that stat. Don't we need Landry, chuck, and scola to take on a shot blocking role? Technically yes, but should they be a disappointment because they can't do it? At 6'7, 6'8, and 6'9(with no hops)? i dont think so. They're set up to fail in that role, much like battier and ariza as scorers.

 

Look at the guys who make the most threes. (and yes battier is one of them he's top 20) They don't shoot the higher percentages that you see on that list. Many of them are closer to battier's average. A lot of the guys high on the % list don't shoot a lot of threes, but just enough to get on the list, which is why they're able to shoot a higher percentage.

If you're looking at numbers alone, then 40% and above seems like the cut off to being a solid 3 pt shooter, right? But if you follow basketball you know not many can shoot above 40% AND make a lot of threes. Less than half of the top 20 in 3s made shoot over 40%. So in reality, his 3 pt shooting is more average than you think.

And where did u get 35.5% from? It's 36.2%. I'm not implying that's a huge difference, but i'm wondering why your source is different.

 

i like shane battier as an individual but i've always thought his defense was overrated as to what people say it is on this board.

great post op.