American pastor Terry Jones vows to hold national Koran burning event

That cartoon is perfect.

 

stats and generic stereotypes, what an awesome mix!

stats are cloudy though. It really depends on what is being quantified.

example-in America's thirst to avenge 9/11, wherein 3,000 American civilians were killed, it can be argued, using the same paltry and general logic used in this comic, that America contributed to the death of 97,961-106,600 Iraqis (of which presumably the majority are Muslims) and directly contributed to

* direct deaths: at least 5,791 - 9,060
* indirect deaths in initial invasion: 3,200 - 20,000
* direct & indirect deaths: 8,991 - 28,583

in US-led military operations in Afghanistan, of which the majority are once again Muslims.

Add in the insurgent-caused deaths (where is the insurgency if there is no invasion?)

direct deaths: at least 4,949 - 6,499
Total direct & indirect deaths: 14,643 - 34,240

So, using this logic, America is responsible for around 112,604-140,840 Muslim deaths.

Notice the range too-there would never be such disparities if such a calamity were beset upon a developed nation. The truth of the matter is that most media sources simply do not care about Afghan or Iraqi civilian counts, unless it is to display their magnitude (of which I have to admit, I am guilty of as well.) You see, an American has a nice convenient monetary value attached to their lives (courtesy of the EPA, which has calculated that the life of an average American is worth $6.9 million. Useful for calculating marginal social benefit/cost and the value of potential lawsuits as an aside). However, I suspect the "monetary" value of an Afghan or Iraqi life is worth somewhere between two s***s and a peanut. This is why headlines will always carry that an American soldier has died and somewhere buried in the text is the fact that 28 Afghans (or maybe 29 or maybe 56) also died.

Basically, we don't care about their lives. Occasionally, we'll be shocked that so many people have died-but in our minds, we're not thinking of people, just an empty wave of numbers that can shock and overwhelm.

So, chew on that the next time you wonder why Muslims are so quick to chant "Death to America." It could be that it's the only way for them to gain some sort of an eye for an eye. After all, America's already blown two Muslim nations half to hell over 9/11. Ooh, those sensitive Muslims.

There will always be extremists. But America is doing nobody any favors with her current policies of warring on war.

 

Even his own daughter is questioning his sanity.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39099740/ns/business/?gt1=43001

 

What a BS response. America is contributing to a death any time an Iraqi or Afghan fights US troops, any time an insurgent blows up a car in a market, any time a terrorist blows up a school full of children, any time ethnic cleansing is taking place, etc. etc. We basically can't protect ourselves from anything for fear of the death count that'll result from people trying to defend the perpetrators of crimes against humanity and those continuing to wage terrorism. That's just brilliant logic. 100% of Americans that died on 9/11 are dead directly because terrorists killed them.

You're really a self-hating westerner. It's sick. American lives have a higher monetary value because they produce more in the world, there's no conspiracy about that. Americans care more about American lives the same way Afghans care about more Afghan lives and Iraqis care more about Iraqi lives. You're just laying this lame ass guilt trip because you think we should be more responsible for other people than they are for themselves just because we're wealthier than they are. What the hell ever. Next you're going to tell me how the Japanese only killed two thousand people at Pearl Harbor and we're just ugly Americans for daring defend ourselves.

There have been Muslims chanting death to America for 30 freaking years, before the average American ever heard of Iraq.

 

Wow...

 

This taking quotes out of context thing has become a real problem on this board. Someone makes an incredible comment about the monetary value of people based on nationality to paint us as a bunch of a-holes, I explain why any monetary value is such, and then my quote is taken out of context to imply I've made some kind of horribly evil judgement on the value of human life.

 

Even accounting for statistical variation and, let's say, halving the causality rates based on indirect civilian causalities (Which would never be caused if there was no war in the first place, but eh), you still get around 50,000 deaths for 3,000. And we know at least 50% are directly caused by American military operations-witness the breakdown in Afghanistan at least. In warring against those who are committing crimes against humanity, are we not doing the same? Fighting fire with fire seems like a popular idiom, but I don't know whether or not anyone would actually try that.

Your judgments on monetary value being applied to lives-let me say this, as an economist in training, it is on the one hand somewhat, well, interesting to see someone who can play with numbers so callously. On the other hand, as a human being, it is rather terrifying to consider that such people exist. "American lives are worth more because they produce more." I can't add much more, other then to perhaps indicate that with the price floor and social support the American government gives her citizens for their labor, this is inherently flawed numbers-wise (and for several other reasons too if we're looking at this statement from a perfectly rational point of view). I don't even want to talk morals.

You also might want to wonder why Muslims were chanting "Death to America" 30 years ago. As a quick example-

"In 1953 the United States played a significant role in orchestrating the overthrow of Iran's popular Prime Minister, Mohammed Mossadegh. The Eisenhower Administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons; but the coup was clearly a setback for Iran's political development. And it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs."

I mean, you had Muslims chanting "Death to the Soviet Union" as well. These things just don't happen spontaneously, no matter what proponents of neo-conservatism and war hawks would have you believe.

Before I end though, I find this statement particularly hilarious "You're just laying this lame ass guilt trip because you think we should be more responsible for other people than they are for themselves just because we're wealthier than they are."

Yes, well, next time you have a Predator drone shoving misfired missiles up your house, please do tell me how responsible you can be for yourself and your family.

 

I am simply telling the man . . .to stop standing behind the US Government/Military
and
go to the people and talk directly to them.

Easy to throw stones from behind your big brother . . .
wel. . . .kind of cowardly.

If you feel the need to burn their book. . . .goto their face and explain it to them.

Rocket River
We are all heros when we are protected from harm.

 

They hated the Ruskies because of their freedomz.

 

And harm in this case is the Muslim government in these countries?

 

So you are saying that "Death to America" chants are justified?

 

Well, they're better then what I like to call the "bomb->hate->bomb->hate cycle".

 

So are you saying "Death to America" chants are justified?

 

Say it one more time, I don't think he understood you the first time.

 

It seemed like it from his response.

 

Tell me what logical steps you took to reach that conclusion from his post.

 

Read the part of his post I quoted with my question to him.

 

He told you why a lot of people chant 'Death to America' in Iran and the US' involvement then.

You somehow took that as him saying he is justifying their calls for 'Death to America'.

Great logic there