American pastor Terry Jones vows to hold national Koran burning event

you think i need to post a 15th to summarize?






(i keed)

 

Does he know that in burning the book he is also burning part of the bible? What an idiot. jesus is also revered as a prophet to the muslim people.

 

learn what? how to burn a Quran?

 

No, he agreed to this:

http://www.state.nj.us/ethics/docs/ethics/uniformcode.pdf

AND also agreed to NJ Transit's code of ethics. He violated it. He was fired.

 

I just skimmed through the document you linked. What exactly do you think he violated in there (assuming that it is even enforceable)?

It is interesting that some of those posters who were such strong proponents of civil liberties when it did suit their purpose and agenda of spreading Islam don't seem to care about civil liberties in this incident.

 

No State officer or employee or special State officer or employee should knowingly act in any way that might reasonably be expected to create an impression or suspicion among the public having knowledge of his/her acts that he/she may be engaged in conduct violative of his trust as a State officer or employee or special State officer or employee

This person has not had any of his civil liberties violated. I thought you said you studied law?

“There may be a constitutional right to talk politics, but there is no constitutional right to be a policeman.” - Justice Oliver Holmes

“If they (certain public employees) do not choose to work on such terms, they are at liberty to retain their beliefs and associations and go elsewhere.” - Justice Fred Vinson

 

If Fenton was fired for burning the Koran while off-duty, his First Amendment rights probably were violated, Chris Dunn of the New York Civil Liberties Union said.

"The Supreme Court has recognized a constitutional right to burn the flag. As reprehensible as it may be, burning the Koran would be protected as well."

"So long as his actions, however misguided, took place on his own time, and he was not acting in his capacity as a representative of NJTransit but as an American exercising his constitutional rights, then the agency is clearly in the wrong," New Jersey State Sen. Raymond Lesniak said.

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nathan...defended-teacher-who-compared-b#ixzz0zmJPhgdF


----------------

The Record: Condemn, don't fire

FOR WEEKS, rational people pleaded with Florida pastor Terry Jones not to go ahead with plans to burn Qurans on the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Jones got the message; Derek Fenton of Bloomingdale, a NJ Transit worker, did not.

Burning any religion’s holy books is an abhorrent act. While we strongly condemned Jones’ planned actions in Florida, we also noted that the First Amendment protected the right to say and do many things many Americans dislike and loathe. Burning the American flag is constitutionally protected. Building a mosque and cultural center two blocks north of Ground Zero is constitutionally protected. And whether we approve – and we most certainly do not – burning pages of the Quran outside the site of that proposed mosque also is protected speech.

Fenton burned pages from the Quran on Saturday. He was led away by police and questioned. He later was released and not charged. He subsequently was fired by NJ Transit. An agency statement said: "Mr. Fenton’s public actions violated New Jersey Transit’s code of ethics."

We made several attempts to reach NJ Transit to hear a detailed explanation of what that code was and how it applied to an employee who is not in a leadership position and does not make policy. E-mails and phone calls were not returned.

We do not see how an NJ Transit employee whose job is reportedly to ensure that sufficient train cars are available to be put into service is in a policy position. Whatever he does on his own time, assuming he does not break any laws and is not identifying himself as an NJ Transit employee, is his own business.

NJ Transit has every right to be unhappy that one of its employees decided to burn pages from the Quran. It should have issued a strong statement saying just that and emphasizing that the opinions of its employees are not the opinions of the agency.

Fenton’s actions are deplorable. They should be condemned. But Fenton is not in a policy position; he is not a public face of the agency either. Unless he was wearing NJ Transit apparel or clearly indicating that he was an NJ Transit employee while burning pages from the Quran, we see his firing as a disturbing knee-jerk response.

We would hope that every American exercises his or her First Amendment rights responsibly. Burning a Quran near Ground Zero is irresponsible. Fenton should have known that his actions would be covered by the media, could be used as propaganda by terrorists who want to foment anti-American hostilities across the globe, and could very well endanger the lives of U.S. troops abroad.

We cannot condemn his actions with greater fervor. But we cannot selectively choose who has cover under the umbrella of the First Amendment. Like it or not, the First Amendment protects everyone — even Derek Fenton.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/103115299_Condemn__don_t_fire.html

 

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/GarcettivCeb.html
When a citizen enters government service, the citizen by necessity must accept certain limitations on his or her freedom. Government employers, like private employers, need a significant degree of control over their employees' words and actions; without it, there would be little chance for the efficient provision of public services. Public employees, moreover, often occupy trusted positions in society. When they speak out, they can express views that contravene governmental policies or impair the proper performance of governmental functions.

At the same time, the Court has recognized that a citizen who works for the government is nonetheless a citizen. The First Amendment limits the ability of a public employer to leverage the employment relationship to restrict, incidentally or intentionally, the liberties employees enjoy in their capacities as private citizens. So long as employees are speaking as citizens about matters of public concern, they must face only those speech restrictions that are necessary for their employers to operate efficiently and effectively.

Can you say NJ Transit could operate efficiently and effectively after an employee shows up on multiple newspapers doing something that, according to the Commander of US Forces in Afghanistan, could harm American soldiers abroad?

 

Yes, absolutely, I can say that. They are still operating just as efficiently and effectively (or not) as before this guy did whatever he did in his private time. He is not the spokesman for NJ Transit and he did not wear an NJ Transit uniform or anything like that. His job (during work hours) has absolutely nothing to do with what he did there.

I understand that you as an Islamist would like to bend the law so that the Sharia is put in place, but even you should understand that.

 

In what world is being insulted and shuting up is a good response ..
This guy will only aggrevate more muslim extremist to these guys people like me and U who r stuck in the middle are Just collateral Damage ..

As a muslim ..

My reaction was in this holy month if people wanna burn the Quran will pay eventually and evantually I mean In the afterlife or whatever U wanna call it .. I believe in iternal Justice .. I believe in Karma .. But I dont believe in applying justice myself .. I leave that to god ..

On a similar note :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU

 

I'm as liberal as they come, but if he was not in uniform, and he did not create a fire hazard, he absolutely has the right to do this. I would question more whether it is lawful to burn something in public- you know, creating a fire hazard and such or the threat of it.

We "progressive libs" can't have it both ways. Freedom of expression is guaranteed to lovers and haters alike. Although those a**holes that protest at military funerals- sorry, but I probably wouldn't be able to control myself and take a swing at them if they waved those stupid signs in my face.


GO OBAMA!!!!

 

American are abusing and misusing terms like freedom of speech and act ..
This will comeback to bite them ..
If U live in a country (like me) where things like this dont exist you'll come to appreciate them more and more ..

 

You appreciate that freedom of speech does not exist?

 

I think U know what I mean ..

But to Clarify people appreciate the things that they dont have more than those who have it ..

I appreciate Freedom of Speech more because I was unfortunete to live without that right ..

 

Ok got it, I honestly did not understand what you meant.

 

Luckily for NJ Transit, your opinion on how they operate has no bearing if they already concluded that he did violate the code of ethics he agreed to when he started working there.

He was identified as an employee of NJ Transit in the newspapers. That automatically makes it a matter of public concern.

I understand that you as a Nazi support would like to bend the law so that the Nazi Reich is put in power, but you should understand that government employees are free to express themselves as they wish under the law so long as they don't violate any job agreements.

 

The thread gets dumbed down every time someone shows Hydhypedplaya how to turn on the computer again.

 

Threads go dead when ATW resorts to ad-hominem attacks because he can no longer counter points he gets refuted on with more of his bigoted sentiment.

You have yet to prove that this guy's civil liberties were violated by NJ Transit.

Did they stop him from expressing his views? No.

Did they fire him for the views he expressed? Yes.

Is that a violation of his First Amendment right to free speech? No.

Teachers have gotten fired for comments they've made on Facebook and Twitter. They're free to make the comments and express themselves. They are not free from the consequences of their actions.

 

Your way of "debating" is such third-grade material that it is ridiculous. You appear to be someone who tries to make up for your lack of intellect and debating skills with anger, and with a "technique" of repeating the same opinion over and over and over again. While doing so, you ignore any argument or evidence that runs counter to your opinion.

What do you have to say about the ACLU guy who says this guy's first amendment rights were violated, and about the NJ state senator who says the same?

Nothing, of course.

Instead, you repeat your angry drivel.

Even Qazi is more intelligent than you. Only BEAT LA and adeelsiddiqui compete with you for being the dumbest poster on here.

 

If I'm his employer, here's my stance. You can do what you want on your own time, out of company uniform. However, if this wiinds up getting in the press and they connect you to our company, for safety reasons we can no longer have you employed here. I'm not going to put the safety of passengers or our facility at risk based on your need to express yourself this way. If you want to burn the Q'uran in protest, I suggest you do it in the privacy of your backyard among people who feel the same as you.