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American Muslims: what's real and what isn't

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by droxford, Sep 2, 2010.

  1. AroundTheWorld

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    Out of curiosity, would you consider yourself an orthodox (as in following stricter rules than most) or a moderate Muslim?
     
  2. moose

    moose Member

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    Honestly, I don't know how to answer that question. I am a Sunni, Ahle Sunnah tul-Jummah, and I follow the Hanafi school of thought. I try my best to be a Muslim. I probably don't even know the clear difference between of orthodox and moderate. I think partly because I don't know what they would be in your terms you are reffering to.

    God knows best of what I am. Cause shoot, idk.
     
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  3. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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  4. Rocket104

    Rocket104 Member

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    This is awesome. Major props to everyone posting.

    If you're non-Muslim, here are the questions you're not asking of the Muslim respondents that you should be:

    * what sect are you?
    * where did you learn this?
    * who/what is the leadership in your sect?
    * what part of the world are you (or your heritage/family) from?

    These questions are critical because no one person here is the authority for 1.5 billion people.

    I'll post some thoughts to help with this discussion, too... nice job to Rockets03, adeelsiddiqui, AroundTheWorld, etc. Droxford - nice idea.
     
    #104 Rocket104, Sep 5, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  5. moose

    moose Member

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  6. Rocket104

    Rocket104 Member

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    Do you kneel to the ground, face mecca and pray every day?

    Prayer is sect-based. There is no completely universal response. Praying towards Mecca is supposed to be a show of unity across the world. In the beginning of the faith Muslims prayed towards Jerusalem, I believe. Things changed after the Hajj. I think that's right.

    Namaz is what you're talking about - it involves bending, kneeling, standing.

    In my sect, we do a set of readings from the Quran mixed in with other stuff called a D'ua.

    Do you fast?

    Muslims are supposed to fast during Ramadan based on an actual Quranic ayat. It's not universally done, though. The fasting has very logical descriptions for when not to do it (traveling, pregnant, sick) that are spelled out.

    Are there wedding rituals that are different?

    In Islam, marriage is not a holy sacrament as it is in Christianity. It's a legal contract.

    In our sect it's literally a signing of a contract in front of the elders. There is another ceremony that is done by more folks (I don't know if it's universal) called a Nikkah - the basic gist of the ceremony is that the union is blessed in the same way as those of Mary & Joseph, Noah & his wife, and so on...

    What do they say heaven is like?

    Again, sect based. The usual fire and brimstone is referenced in the Quran as it is in the Bible. In our sect it's neo-Platonic (?) and heaven is unity with God while hell is absence/removal/death/non-existence after dying.

    What do they say will cause you to burn in hell/go to heaven?

    All the things you'd expect. Shirk, as mentioned earlier, is generally considered polytheism. At one point I remember someone telling me that this is where the issue between Muslims and Christians on a philosophical level comes in. Jesus = God = two forms = bad... or if you're Catholic, trinity = three forms = bad.

    What holidays do you follow?

    Holidays are often cultural, not religious. We grew up celebrating Christmas as a gift-giving holiday. All US holidays were celebrated by my family, though I did know some folks who considered Halloween evil and occult. If you know any conservative Christians I'm sure you've heard this before, too.

    Lots of cultural holidays revolving around being Indian/Pakistani. Navroz, the Persian New Year, is treated as the start of the new year (aka March 21, first day of spring).

    Religious holidays - we celebrate the Eids as mentioned elsewhere. We also memorialized the death of Ali, the first Imam, the birthdays of Muhammad and Ali. You may hear someone mention Ashura at some point, which is a ceremony/tradition involving Ali's martyrdom.

    What clothing/hairstyle do they say you must follow (if any)?

    You know how when you were growing up and your mom and dad would try to get you to dress normally, not like a hoodlum/slut, etc.? THAT is universal. The difference is what the culture around you dictates, not the religion.

    Do muslims have an equivalent of "the ten commandments"

    That would indeed be the Ten Commandments. So I don't think anyone else brought this up...

    Christians, Jews (and a few others depending on your sect's beliefs) are considered "People of the Book". This means that the Torah is a book of God. After that came the Bible... and its message, when in conflict with that of the Torah, took precedent. The same is true of the Quran. When there seem to be contradictions between books, it's Quran > Bible > Torah.

    Is there an equivalent "sabbath" day of rest each week?

    I think this is cultural depending on part of the world, not prescribed by Scripture.

    Do you feel it's sacrilegious to depict Mohammad?

    No. The point of the restriction was just a warning to emphasize that the important figure is God, not the man known as Mohammed. People worship figures, idols, images, etc.

    Wait - you said the Walima (wedding reception?) is done AFTER the consummation? Are they waiting outside the hotel room, or something?

    The Walima is an Arab tradition, I believe.

    Are there foods that you aren't allowed to eat?

    The restrictions that Jews have apply to Muslims as well - no cloven-hooved animals, including horses and pigs... and something about shellfish, I believe.

    Do you believe that all creatures, including animals, go to heaven?

    I think we were told only humans have souls. (This makes more sense if you consider the heaven question above.)

    What do they teach you about sex? Procreation?

    The same guilt trip you expect from any conservative religious entity.

    Do you study the qur'an daily?

    In my sect we recite the same passages over and over again but don't read the Quran that often.

    Do you wear loose-fitting, robe-like garments?

    This is a cultural question, not religious. You dress to fit in while still living within your own personal boundaries. (So for me the answer is no, because in the US you wear t-shirts, shorts, khakis, pants, suits, etc., as a dude.)

    Do you pray out loud? Do you chant?

    This is another sect question.

    During a typical prayer session, one person leads D'ua, then a few prayers where the congregation responds with "ameen" (Amen) once in a while, there is a hymn-like song sung by someone and you can join in if you like, and then a repeat of the D'ua. There's also a reading of a religious speech by our Imam / head of the sect.

    Do they teach you that a man and a woman can't be alone together (saw this in the video above)

    This is cultural. Again, consider the guilt trip your mom would give you if she caught you with a girl alone. Some cultures (especially Middle Eastern) take this really far.

    Must muslims give a certain percentage of their earnings to the church?

    I believe this is universal but someone can correct me if not: you are supposed to give 2.5% of your assets every year to the poor as Zakat.

    Are you required to do a certain amount of community service?

    Help your fellow man in general if you can. No requirements.

    Do you have to go to distant places to do missionary work?

    Islam is not supposed to be a proselytizing religion. The Quran says "there is no compulsion in religion."

    Is there any sort of baptism ceremony?

    In our sect, yes, there is a ceremony but it's to put you into the sect, not Islam.

    Technically, the ceremony to become a Muslim is simply a heartfelt recitation of the Shahada - "There is no God but God and Muhammed is His Messenger."

    What about circumcision?

    I believe Jewish rules apply.

    Do you find that your parents follow the religion more strictly than you do?

    No. We waffle on different things. ;o)

    Do muslims believe that God punishes?

    It's the Abrahamic God, so yes.

    Christians generally believe in "judgement day". Do muslims believe in anything like that?

    Yes, and it plays out a lot like Revelations with Jesus as the star of the show.

    Is there a church "service" and when does it occur? how long does it last? how often do you attend?

    Oh, this is very sect based. For us, twice a day - once at 5am and other at 7:30p (basically). They last 30 minutes. I make it on Fridays.

    Are there any rituals that are performed during church? (eating bread, drinking wine, incense, holy water, etc.)

    For us you ask for forgiveness of sins after service (which was mentioned above), and on Fridays / other special days you also drink blessed water.

    What other books besides the Qur'an and Hadith are followed?

    In my sect we have a head, so his religious speeches are followed.

    By the way, Hadith have lots and LOTS of disagreements. Asking about what "school" someone's sect is in is important for this reason.

    Is there anything in muslim religion against the use of profanity?

    Cultural.

    In your modern, American belief in Islam, are women equal to men?

    Yes, absolutely. In our sect, the education of a woman is supposed to be emphasized - if you have to choose between educating a son or daughter you're supposed to educate the daughter as she will better pass on education to her children.

    So, you're saying that muslims generally give Mohammed more focus because God gave him the Qur'an, but in actuality, he, Jesus, Moses, and Abraham are all at about the same level (all are equal prophets under God)?

    Yes, and because Muhammed is the seal of the prophets - the last one. Jesus and Moses are revered as well, and Abraham is the daddy of them all.

    Do muslims believe that those prophets are/were more divine than us? (Catholics believe that their religious leaders are divinely inspired and are thus somewhat "holier" than us. I don't think I'm really stating that accurately, but that's the general gist of it).

    So I think the answer is that these are all generally supposed to be men who were blessed by God, so the holiness does go up a little. Now, in my sect there is this concept of Noor, the light of God, being in all of us... and there's just a little more of it in prophets and holy men.

    Do muslims believe that their religious leaders are divine (meaning, they're somewhat holier than the common person)?

    In my sect, yes.

    Are women permitted to be religious leaders?

    In my sect, yes at the local levels (like in services). The head honcho is supposed to be male, though.

    But didn't Mohammed live in the Middle East, and, according to the "Sunnah", people have to follow him? How far does this go? What about things in his life that would nowadays be regarded as not to be followed (but might have been culturally accepted at his time)? Then if there are such things, does that not make the whole Sunnah concept obsolete (i.e., if one should not marry minors, why should one wear a beard)?

    Okay, so now you hit upon the question that is huge in Islam... Shia vs Sunni. Shias believe that Muhammed appointed a successor to serve as head of the faith, while Sunnis believe that he did not. As a result, the Sunni leader engaged only on temporal matters while the Shia leader (Imam) was an arbiter on spiritual matters as well.

    So Shias, I think, I are more likely to say the practices update with the times, while Sunnis do not.

    Who are all of the Prophets of Islam? Are they just Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammed? Or do you honor others as Prophets like Ishmael, Samuel, Elijah, Jeremiah, or anyone else?

    Since Quran > Bible > Torah, the prophets you mention are all considered so in Islam. There are 124,000 prophets mentioned because every race and nation has had a prophet throughout history.

    I often see on the BBS, but rarely elsewhere, the acronym PBUH after Mohammed's or Jesus' name. I assume that is for "Praise be upon Him", right? Why isn't that considered a form of worship?

    PBUH = peace be upon him. You state it after Muhammed, Jesus, Moses, and any other prophet.

    Different types of banking and insurance. Many don't participate at all in conventional banks and insurance schemes.

    This is a Christian concept as well - the outlawing of usury (aka "money from nothing is impossible so it must be evil").

    How do American Muslims feel about dogs?

    For some reason dogs are considered unclean, but I have yet to see a legit citation in the Quran indicating you can't have them. I think it's cultural, not religious. (I did see someone cite a Hadith, though.)
     
  7. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Walima isn't Arabic, unless there's another name for it in Arabic.

    In Arab tradition, there is the Milcha (which is when you're officially married on paper) and then there's the wedding later which can be done one or two or three nights. The marriage is complete once the couple sleep together after the wedding.

    Oh and usury is not just a Christian concept. It is also in the Quran ("riba").
     
  8. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Wow, this thread is really blowing up.
     
  9. Rocket104

    Rocket104 Member

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    You're right - that's what I was trying to say. I learned that Islamic banking ideas are based on interest being forbidden... and this is in line with Christian teachings.
     
  10. arif1127

    arif1127 Member
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    Interest is not forbidden, usury is. Usury is the concept of lending money with an excessively high interest rate, like borrowing from Joey on the block with a 35% rate per week. In my limited knowledge of Islamic banking, there has not been any real definition of usury by todays scholars.
     
  11. Invisible Fan

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    This thread's be heading in the right direction.
     
  12. Yonkers

    Yonkers Member

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    Agree. I've learned a lot. A whole lot.
     
  13. Rocket104

    Rocket104 Member

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    This is definitely interpretation. Usury may have the connotation you describe (which is new to me) but by definition it is purely the charging of interest.

    Searching on Google led to this, which is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riba:

    Riba was forbidden in the Medinan society of Muhammad, as it had been in the medieval Christian world. Historically, the consensus of Muslim jurists understood that any loan which involved an increase in repayments was forbidden, and as such, the Islamic state prohibited it.​

    It goes on to say that there is now some sort of consensus that the time-value of money is part of the allowable charging of interest... but this, too isn't crystal clear.
     
  14. moose

    moose Member

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    I thought this would be nice to share. Story about two American Muslim brothers in the NFL who are fasting during the month of Ramadan.

    <object width="384" height="216" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" id="ESPN_VIDEO" data="http://espn.go.com/videohub/player/embed.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" allowNetworking="all"><param name="movie" value="http://espn.go.com/videohub/player/embed.swf" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><param name="wmode" value="opaque"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/><param name="allowNetworking" value="all"/><param name="flashVars" value="id=5536248"/></object>
     
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