Who is more skeptical of their government than the political right wing? Who is more reliant upon their government than the political left... regardless of specific party affiliation.
1) I don't see the relevance. Are you saying that slavery, genocide, etc. were better because we were most of us in favor? Or because we practiced it during turbulent times? I don't get it. 2) It was a hell of a lot worse than not pretty, and a hell of a lot more than reservations...Look up Wounded Knee...or Kettle Creek...or Black Creek...or any of the other countless examples of systematic genocide that Lincoln himself approved of. Intentionally spreading deadly disease...sort of like terrorism and WMD, no? Mass executions, including women and children...intentional starvation of encamped cooperatives...the list is as long as you'd like...and you think that you can band-aid it all by saying we were 'settling'? Yeah, we were settling on their land. Land we agreed was theirs time and again, and kept suing above tactics whenever gold was discovered on their land...or we wnated secure trails to the West Coast, etc. There is no way to dismiss or excuse thie, except by the means this entore thread is about..." It''s different, because it's us. " Would you accpet Hussein's rationale that he's 'settling' Kurdish regions, and it's ugly? No, I didn't think so... 3) I'm not saying I can disprove a negative...but then again, I'm not using my position to start a war. You do see that the imperative is on the person starting a war to prove his case, not the other way around...right?
You're doing it again...it's not a matter of an internal debate of political sides...it's an American perspective vs, the rest of the world. The very fact that we see the Great Debate not as a Global issue, but as an American one of Democrat vs. Republican, liberal vs. conservative, right wing vs. left wing...that we think the real battle is waged there, and then the result if passed on to the rest of the world as though with benevolent patronage...that once we, The American People, have faced off along our own particular political lines, and arrived at some sort of conclusion, that that conclusion, having passed through the gauntlet of our system, is then therefore the truth...that is the problem we're talking about here, or at least a huge factor in it. Who is more skeptical of our government than the political right? The rest of the world. I know...they're all just jealous...
Hey slim, I have to recommend the old hole-in-the-pants technique. I have won so many arguments this way! Uh, seriously though, all I respond to are posts. You posted a defense of American smarts that was messed up; I meant no insult, but all we have to go on in on the BBS are the posts. Then your second post called me a punk. So my assumption at that point is that, while I might be mean, it looks like I put a little more thought into my posts than you do. I have no right to assume anything more than that. Actually, maybe the apostrophe key on your keyboard doesn't work. I don't know. Good point. No, America is not at all alone there. Humanity has a certain "ground state" that it will default to, and I don't think we're too much worse than other cultures on that front. However, I want more from myself, my fellow Americans, from my fellow humans of all faiths. (soundtrack swells in background...) I was giving very negative historical examples, I admit, but I sincerely don't want US to measure ourselves by money and weaponry. That's a sad, sad state of affairs if you ask me. Know what I mean?
1. No I'm refuting your assertion that it would have been okay for other sovereign nations to invade us because of our internal political disputes. Saddam is nothing more than a sadistic and murdering dictator (can't say that about King George or Abraham Lincoln) and Saddam deserved Operation Iraqi Freedom. 2. I'd rather have been an American Indian than a Kurd. I am not trying to gloss this over; this is admittedly the most accurate of your criticisms. 3. Asking someone to prove their case to their harshest critic is a lopsided deal. Nothing would move forward under that requirement.
This is what was written that I responded to: "Excellent points, MacBeth. Combine these facts with a corporate media agenda that's closely tied to political idealogy and you get what we have: a largely uninformed public that believes that what is right is whatever their government tells them." This is an American commentary; that's why I responded likewise. It's not just me doing it "again!"
Hey! Don't jump all over me! It's not my fault that the view gets a little shaky form these soap boxes! No, but seriously, I don't necessarily see that that post limited things to an American-only perspective, but if that's what you thought, fair enough. You're probably right, we'd have to ask GV.
1) Subjective, both in criteria, and application. What you call 'internal disputes' others on the outside saw as genocide, and slavery, pure and simple. They would have called our system muderous, sadistic, barbarous, cruel, etc...and did. To say that it's different because it was our affair is exactly what i was talking about. 2) Why? Many, many more American Indians were killed than Kurds... 3) And what standard would you say is applicable for the justification of invading another country? Remember, if you're fair minded, this justification should apply to every other nation in the world too, and if you say " If we're pretty sure we're right, and pretty sure we have cause, we can invade X...then South Africa or North Korea, or China can say the same thing. That's the point...we have abandoned the standard for the justification war we expected of others. So if China can turn around and say.." Well can you prove that Tibet wasn't formenting revolt?...or that North Korea can demand us for proof that their assertions that SK is actively undermining their government are incorrect, else we approve their wanting to take over? Geese and ganders...The burden of proof still rests with the aggressor.
Hey, it was you who jumped all over me.... Truth be known, I'm a bit of a closet isolationist. I'm tired of the U.S. running the world but sometimes it does seem like the world needs us. We pay a steep price for it in lives, money, and harmony.
actually we should blame the Spanish, their diseases killed 95% of the native population in North America way before USA was even a dream
1. I'd call a colonial revoluion and a civil war pretty much internal events. I've never heard it said that Iraq was in a civil war such was the crushing pressure that Saddam had over the Iraqi people. 2. I'd just rather be an Indian! I like buckskin and dogmeat. I'll take my chances there than with the WsMD. The devastation would not have been so widespread if cable news had been around. 3. Only if you have unlimited resources are you "obligated" to police everyone and everything. We don't have to act on our fair-mindedness; it's too costly. It's nice if we are fair-minded and I think we are. We just can't be the do-all for every sufferer.
how can you say that Iraq didnt support terrorosm? The regime needed to go away and we did it. What is so hard to understand?
Most Americans have neither the time nor the inclination to actually read into these things. They get their "news" from TV. If they read a newspaper, they'd have to really dig to find real news; most of the newspapers and news magazines have, until recently, been very lockstep with the administration. And never underestimate the power of frontier justice to override sound reasoning.
What does BBS "American Bashing" accomplish, unless you simply want to anger those that "are proud" of the country they live in? When's the last time a society has changed through that method? If thats your arguement, I'll give you the same question I gave MacBeth who never answered it, " What are you sincerely doing to change anything?" Are you involved in ANYTHING that will improve the education or "morals" of this country? You have a better solution to our foreign policy, stop wasting your time on the BBS and take some action. If you can improve morality in this Country, then do something about it. It just requires one thing, THE BALLS to hang yourself out to the public and its scrutiny. As far as the "punk" remark, my apologies. After reading this board for more than five minutes I should just turn the PC off versus getting caught up in flame wars that solve or accomplish nothing.
Wait...I missed when you asked me this...you are asking what I am doing to improve the education or morals of this country, is that right? Well...it's sort of a double edged answer, that one...
Well, I turned down a career that would have meant a lot more money in order to dedicate myself to educating people. I vote. I volunteer time for candidates that reflect my views. I write letters to my elected officials (more or less constantly), and I've had articles and letters to the editor published in numerous periodicals. So I do some, more than type on a BBS, but probably not enough. Sorry to blather, but I'm treating your question as a sincere one. By the way, I would never ask you to stop being proud of your country. Far from. I don't think you should get so mad if some of us criticize and dream of something even better though. (MacBeth's answer is much better actually. )
In addition to plays that I write, groups that I'm involved with, I work on various campaigns, volunteer my time, have taught high school, and am currently training to teach elementary.
I'll bite. In addition to the non-profit theater I run (which includes a significant education/outreach program) and the arguably politically charged plays I write and direct, I've lectured and/or taught at Jones High School, St. John's and virtually every local university. I also chaired the Houston office for a presidential campaign in 1992 (full-time for no money) and worked for the candidate at the national convention at my own expense. What do you do to help out with 'morals' and education in this country, by the way? I mean besides espousing the patriotic superiority of nationalism over dissent?
The article I read said that he moved to Sudan, and that the government strong armed the family to save the oil contracts and relationship with the US. I'll look for the article.
Well that's good boys. I was looking for something more along lines of a massize scale, but any effort is certainly better than nothing. And Batman Jones, where is this theatre at?
