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american car troubles

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by God's Son, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. BetterThanEver

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    We're already saw the result of higher gas prices. It's accelerated losses not innovation for the big 3.
     
  2. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Joe Biden DID NOT VOTE

    Where was he? What was more important for him than this?
     
  3. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    He's locked in the super-secret Vice Presidential bunker with Cheney teaching him how to control the markets, launch fake terrorist attacks, and create hurricanes.
     
  4. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    The party of Hoover rides again. They're so concerned with settling their perceived political scores with unions that they endanger everyone... a plan to make things worse and then blame the Dems will not work. This is so transparent all but the deadest of the dead-enders see it for what it is.

    I should add that the Senate Repubs did not bring this issue up until the last minute. They repeatedly declined to participate in the crafting of this bill. They refused to draft a bill of their own. They refused to partake in the negotiations until there was a deal done by the WH and Cong. Dems and the measure had passed the House.

    Yes, the auto companies suck and yes they have opposed every reasonable measure aimed at emission control and fuel efficiency, but they are an integral part of the economy, many people depend on the industry, and now is not the time to engage in this ridiculousness. The ripple effect of failure will be huge and the blood will be on the hands of the lame duck Republicans who wanted it to happen.
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    LOL the UAW led the Big 3 to this situation over the course of decades. You decide to blame the Republican senators, who tried to compromise at the last minute. Talk about missing the point....the union could have pushed their concessions forward to 2009 - the language was pretty vague and hardly binding. The blood is clearly on the UAW for this mess
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

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    Apparently texxxxxxxx didn't read this part of the article.

     
  7. playlife

    playlife Member

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    Isn't he busy picking out his puppy?
     
  8. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Not only did I read the article, but I've been following this closely for the past 3 days. You believe any point the UAW makes. Bottom line is that they are responsible for leading the big 3 to where they are today, and were not willing to accept the Republicans' compromise that would have GIVEN THEIR COMPANIES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Beggars can't be choosers, champ
     
  9. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    nice.
    :D
     
  10. FranchiseBlade

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    It is weak to blame the lowest rungs of the ladder when things go wrong. It is better business, and common sense to realize that the blame falls on the people who make the decisions. The buck stops with those in charge, because it's their responsibility to run a solid business. They did not.

    Blaming workers for the mistakes is like blaming privates in the army for mistakes that were made in Iraq.
     
  11. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    You have very little understanding of the situation. The union contracts, negotiated by the union bigwigs, were a key contributor in the big 3's lack of competitiveness. Did you know that? Honest question
     
  12. FranchiseBlade

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    The contracts weren't the biggest cause, I did know that. I also know that they made concessions and were willing to push other issues up for negotiation back.

    To say the demands of a $25 an hour worker is what brought the big car companies down is silly. IF that's what did it, it's only more proof that the decisions and policies of the executives didn't make a strong enough company to begin with.
     
  13. Dream Sequence

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    Its not as simple as saying you're blaming the lowest rung....the UAW is a union, so its not like its some single guy that is a pushover. When your manufacturing labor costs are higher than competitors, you can either:

    a) blame management for agreeing to labor terms that were uncompetitive
    b) blame the workers for overplaying their hand

    Its stupid to put all of this at the feet of the UAW, but they share a very good chunk of the blame for the mess the auto industry is in (I'm not talking about this bailout, just what got them there).
     
  14. Dream Sequence

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    Also, I don't like the idea of the "wait til 2011" idea....why can't they work on it right now given that the company is basically bleeding cash? Are they just hoping that the car market is better in 2011 so they'll have to concede less?
     
  15. FranchiseBlade

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    They may have some blame, and that's fine. But poor decisions in what types of cars to make, how to make them, what kind of fuel standards they would have, what kinds of warranties to give etc. has far more to do with why they failed, than giving their workers a decent wage.

    Also notice that the union wants the workers wages to be increased to what the wages of foreign auto makers in the U.S. are making. So if foreign automakers are paying more than what U.S. automakers are paying, it doesn't seem like the UAW is the real reason they automakers have been having troubles.
     
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    it's my understanding that's not the case if you take into consideration total compensation. i believe...from a total compensation standpoint...that the big 3 pay around $70/labor hour while the Japanese companies pay American workers closer to $50/labor hour. if that's correct, that puts the big 3 at a GIGANTIC disadvantage.
     
  17. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    unions served their purpose in the past. Now they just provide more problems than solutions.
     
  18. AGBee

    AGBee Member

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    [​IMG]

    The numbers for the big 3 are said to include retiree benefits, which absolutely kill them. The foreign auto makers don't have that noose around their neck.
     
  19. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    The $70 per hour is arrived at by rolling in and average for pension payments and the biggest hit of all, retiree health care. The guy working the line today is not costing the Big 3 $70 an hour. This is a fiction perpetuated by Repubs.

    I will agree that the $70 figure is yet another bullet point for significant health care reform.

    As to the retirement money, there's a reason all those foreign companies have located in right-to-work states... they can pass the costs of older workers on to society ( as well as extort billions from local governments).
     
  20. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Funny. Today, I could say that about the management of multiple sectors of our economy.
     

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