These types of players succeed all the time. Would you rather 26% at NBA 3 or 34%?at college three. The thing Simmons did well for a while was play to his strengths and not shoot a whole lot. Westbrook never did that. I’m hoping that he improves but ultimately just take smart shots. Find a couple spots on the arc that you shoot well from and focus on launching from there. I put it in another thread, but I really think that his lack of shooting is creating this narrative that he’s not a skilled player and I just don’t think that’s accurate. Id probably rather have Henderson, but I also realize that there are defense of problems with Henderson at 6’2 even with his wingspan. I want to start KPJ and Green on the wings sooner than later and a median outcome Amen makes that feasible.
Interesting thought. I can kind of see that working out better than most scenarios people present for KPJ to remain as a starter, since Amen is the size of a typical SF. They would have to shuffle defensive assignments, with Green likely guarding PGs, KPJ taking SGs, and Amen taking SFs. However, KPJ is going to have to dramatically change the way he plays and become much more of a catch-and-shoot guy/secondary creator and just putting a lot more effort into his defense. I hope he is willing to buy in.
https://theathletic.com/4622239/2023/06/22/nba-draft-g-league-ignite-overtime-elite/ In 2020, however, G League Ignite and the Overtime Elite opened up new pathways for elite high school talent. Each is a program where players train as professionals before becoming eligible to enter the NBA at 19. On Thursday, three of the top 10 picks in the 2023 NBA Draft are expected to come from the two new pipelines. How the leagues compare to college Prospects have options to consider for their future starting in the 10th grade. The usual path for prospects, since the age minimum’s inception, was to attend college for at least one year before going pro. With other development options like Overtime Elite, G League Ignite or other overseas leagues becoming more prominent, the traditional route to the NBA could become less common. College basketball has long been viewed as the safest option, with free education and the opportunity to go back to school year after year to develop. Prior to 2021, college athletes could not make money off their name, image or likeness (NIL). During that time period many of the top high-school prospects opted to join the Ignite or OTE. The NCAA had to respond, thus came the legalization of student athletes being able to make make money through NIL. With players now legally making thousands of dollars and being allowed to transfer once without sitting out, college has become an even more attractive route in recent years — even as a number of other options have emerged. Some NBA scouts still believe it is the best route. “In my opinion, college is the best option,” one scout told The Athletic. “You can hide in college. You can’t hide in the G League. NBA teams see you and your flaws. If I were an agent, I’d tell my client to go to college.” What is NBA G League Ignite? G League Ignite is a developmental team that plays a NBA G-League schedule, but it is comprised of younger prospects looking to make it to the NBA and select veterans who have already had a career in the league. The Ignite is only for post-high school graduates and is considered an alternative pathway to the NBA beyond the collegiate route. Prospects can earn up to $1 million to join the team as teenagers. The team’s season is broken into two parts: a 32-game regular season and an 18-game Showcase Cup. A player may earn financial incentives for participating in G-League games, attending community events and attending life skills programs. Additionally, players receive full scholarships to Arizona State University, which partners with the NBA. Prospects that play in the Ignite are ineligible to play college basketball. What is Overtime Elite? Overtime Elite is a closed league for 16- to 20-year-olds where players are paid $100,000 a year plus signing bonuses, as well as given stock shares in the Overtime company. Players in this league can also maintain their college eligibility by choosing the scholarship option. The league consists of six teams. In 2022-23, each team played a 15-game schedule. All games are played at Overtime Elite Arena in Atlanta. Players get health and disability insurance and $100,000 in college scholarships if they decide not to pursue professional basketball. What are the differences between the two programs? G-League Ignite players must be high-school graduates, while OTE players can join the league as they finish high school. As 18-year-olds, players in G League Ignite learn what it takes to be a professional, both mentally and physically. They’re presented with resources to teach them about financing, budgeting, community service involvement and basketball business. OTE, meanwhile, offers traditional high-school courses such as math, history and english along with financial literacy, media training and mental health and wellness. OTE provides 4:1 or 1:1 academic support and content-specific tutoring based on athletes’ self-directed learning goals. Each week, students receive personalized instruction to help them meet their learning goals. Anonymous NBA scout No. 1: “I don’t really see a way to compare the two other than they are not the traditional paths that is college. Ignite is more of the pro/minor-league route and a one-year waiting process for the NBA. “It seems OTE is more about the development cycle that includes on- and off-the-floor investment. There are positives to both sides, with the Ignite being the NBA umbrella and playing against pros or the closest things to it, while the OTE circuit might have a greater investment in the entire body of work.” Anonymous NBA scout No. 2: “In theory, OTE has a place. It’s a viable source for you if you’re an NBA prospect with positional size and skill in ninth to 11th grade. OTE is like a trade school with rehab, strength conditioning, meal preparation, skill development, and film review. It’s like you’re an apprentice. “Instead of going to school for seven hours a day, you could train. It’s the best model on paper. If you had to choose between OTE and Montverde (Academy, a prep school in Florida), pick OTE. You’re getting every resource you need to be a pro. The problem with the model is they aren’t being challenged, they don’t play anybody. “The G League is OTE on steroids. You’re the second-best competition on the planet. The only better is the NBA. You have all the resources you need to develop, you’re getting NBA terminology, being watched by every NBA team. What’s better than that?” Who are the 2023 draft prospects from G League Ignite and Overtime Elite? Eight players from the Ignite and OTE made Sam Vecenie’s 2023 top-100 Big Board. Here are his scouting reports on all eight: No. 2, Scoot Henderson (Ignite guard) No. 5, Amen Thompson (OTE guard): Thompson has all the physical tools you could ask for in an NBA prospect. He will enter the league as one of its best athletes. He has great creativity and has grown up as a point guard, which gives him a tremendous sense of how to read the floor. He’s aggressive and plays with an extremely switched-on motor. His athleticism and willingness to push the pace in transition alone will allow him to be tremendously productive. His ceiling is All-NBA if everything breaks right. But his floor is probably a bit lower than you’d think, too. The shooting is a genuine flaw that will be difficult to fix. The other flaws are substantive within his game and could cause him issues in the half court. Thompson is a bet on your developmental team if you’re selecting him in the top five. He has all the upside you could ask for, and he’s willing to work. Both Thompson brothers are terrific competitors and are willing to put in the time and effort when it comes to getting better. I think I would bet on Amen to figure out everything else outside of the shooting. Where you slot him will depend almost entirely upon your philosophy on how essential shooting is for lead creators who can pressure the rim and make passing reads at an elite level. There is a case for him as high as No. 2 in the class purely due to his athletic tools, his ability to pressure the rim and incredible feel for the game as a passer. — Vecenie No. 9, Ausar Thompson (OTE guard): In my opinion, the shooting question is much more important for Ausar than it is for Amen. Because Ausar figures to be playing off the ball much more often, he’ll be asked to space the floor and not allow his man to sag off him and shrink the floor in a significant way. If he can’t shoot, there’s a chance it’s hard for him to start in the NBA. That’s why his floor is a bit lower than Amen’s, in my view. Having said that, if he does shoot it – and again, both twins are extremely high-level workers – the ceiling for Ausar is very high. It would open his game entirely on offense because it would allow him to be that secondary creator who plays out of ball screens on the second side but also can attack off the catch off kickouts to continue to bend defenses. His driving game would open because he’d be able to attack more often in straight lines. His passing is terrific for a secondary creator at 6-foot-7. His defense has real upside that is probably just below All-Defense caliber. All that leads to a legitimate All-Star ceiling. The player he most reminds me of is Andre Iguodala right now. It’s all going to come down to how much you trust the human beings involved and how confident you feel in how the ball comes out of his hands even if the mechanics are a work in progress. If you’re a believer, you might have Ausar as high as No. 4 on your board. If you’re not, it’s reasonable to have him somewhere more in the middle of the first round. I’m much more on the believer side because I see him figuring out an answer on the jumper. But there is some risk. — Vecenie No. 13, Leonard Miller (Ignite forward) No. 32, Sidy Cissoko (Ignite wing) No. 64, Mojave King (Ignite guard) No. 73, Jaylen Martin (OTE wing) No. 88, Jazian Gortman (OTE guard) Past draftees from G League Ignite and Overtime Elite The G League Ignite has had six players drafted and two undrafted free agents make an NBA roster over the past two years. Its most notable alumni are Jalen Green (Rockets, No. 2 pick in 2021), Jonathan Kuminga (Warriors, No. 7 pick in 2021), Dyson Daniels (Pelicans, No. 8 pick in 2022) and Jaden Hardy (Mavericks, No. 37 pick in 2022). OTE’s prospects include undrafted forward Dominick Barlow, the only NBA player so far. He was on a two-way contract with the San Antonio Spurs last season.
In some regards, I think it’s better that Amen’s shot is worse than Westbrook. With WB it was still passable enough that, in his best moments, you could trick yourself into believing in it. Worst of all, WB himself never gave up on it and became way too much of a chucker, beginning the year of his MVP season and pretty much carrying on the rest of his career, outside of a 20 game span after we traded Capela. With Amen there is no doubt it needs to be junked. He’s at the stage of Ben Simmons in his rookie year, but instead his head seems to be right. If you could start from scratch with Ben Simmons and bet on him all over again from his rookie year forward not to be a broken brain, 30 out of 30 teams would take a guy like him at pick 4. We just didn’t realize that 1.) he didn’t love the game; 2.) could not be talked out of shooting left handed even though he’s right handed in everything else; and 3.) would be so flagrantly unreceptive to coaching or improving his game in any other way. His first healthy season in the NBA, he was a finished product. With Amen we have every indication that he has the work ethic to keep growing. His shot is fubar, so he gets to start at zero and rework mechanics without any resistance or faith in his old shooting form.
https://theathletic.com/4630315/2023/06/22/rockets-draft-no-4-pick-prediction-trades/ Rockets’ final big board 1. Amen Thompson | 6-6 guard | 20 years old | Overtime Elite After the doom, gloom and chaos of a season in which the Rockets won 22 games, there was an internal optimism ahead of the draft lottery that some good fortune would come their way. A reprieve, if you will, from a rebuild that had stagnated. When deputy commissioner Mark Tatum announced Houston’s fate on May 16 — owners of the No. 4 pick — you could almost hear the groans stretch from Baytown to Richmond. Rockets officials were disappointed as well, missing out on a top-three pick and the flexibility that comes with it, especially in a draft class that is considered to be a three-man group. As it turns out, that disappointment was short-lived. From interviews at the combine, prior scouting and continued evaluations of Amen Thompson, the Rockets grew more enamored with the 20-year-old and didn’t view the gap between him and Brandon Miller and Scoot Henderson as substantial. A month ago, Thompson was the early leader in the clubhouse for the No. 4 pick, sources said, with multiple members of the organization quite fond of his combination of size, athleticism, defensive ability and playmaking prowess. I get the sense the feeling on Thompson has never wavered, despite weeks of debate and due diligence on several other high-ranking prospects. There’s an immediate fit with Jalen Green in the backcourt with Thompson’s ability to process defenses quickly, attack downhill and, most importantly, take on tougher defensive assignments. Thompson should also pair well with Jabari Smith Jr., a tough-nosed, lengthy defender who finished the season on a high note and showed some two-way upside. The concern here is Thompson’s shooting, which is a legitimate drawback and may cause a clunky fit with an Alperen Şengün. But given where the Rockets are in their rebuild, upside should trump everything else. John Lucas is still heavily embedded in the organization and has a history of working with players on their mechanics as does new assistant Ben Sullivan. This is what development is about at the end of the day, all hands on deck. And for a player like Thompson, they will be. 2. Ausar Thompson | 6-6 wing | 20 years old | Overtime Elite While Ausar may not be exactly the same class as Amen in terms of athleticism (which is interesting given their genetic makeup is essentially identical), he’s not that far off. I wouldn’t be shocked if some teams have him ranked ahead of his brother. He’s just a smart, gifted basketball player. Strong center of gravity, which aids his defensive versatility, quality playmaker and a tad bit better shooter than Amen. Good driver of the ball as well. I have Amen ranked higher because, for me, Ausar fits better with an already established primary ballhandler, which the Rockets don’t have just yet. You see the Andre Iguodala comparisons a lot. I’d also throw in shades of Hedo Türkoğlu (playmaking approach only, guys). 3. Anthony Black | 6-6 guard | 19 years old | Arkansas You remember whenever the PS5 first dropped and if you didn’t get the larger, more popular edition, you jumped on the digital version and were pleased you came away with something? This is the same thing, except point guard prospects. Black isn’t nearly in the same realm as the Thompson twins in athleticism but he’s still athletic enough to impress you at that size and speed. He’s nothing short of a wizard with the ball in his hands and will wow you with some of his reads on a nightly basis. Think Ricky Rubio and Josh Giddey. Defensively is where he’ll hang his hat, being able to guard multiple positions comfortably. His sheer basketball IQ would go a long way in Houston and he would undoubtedly raise the Rockets efficiency on both ends of the floor. There’s a reason he worked out the same day as the Thompson twins. 4. Cam Whitmore | 6-6 wing | 18 years old | Villanova The recent chatter about Whitmore’s falling draft stock has only grown louder over the past 48 hours but don’t get me wrong, he’s a heck of a consolation prize for any team picking in the top 10. Whitmore would fit in nicely alongside Green and Smith and would give head coach Ime Udoka a powerful, dynamic potential scoring machine at the small forward position. I’m not quite there yet on his decision making but it’s not like the Rockets scored highly in that department last season, either. This is about upside and talent at the end of the day and Whitmore has both. 5. Jarace Walker | 6-7 forward | 19 years old | Houston Can you imagine the sheer chaos Walker and Tari Eason could do defensively? There wouldn’t be enough backs of heads to smack. Walker appears less sexy than some of his peers but I’m not sure why. He’s confident with the ball in his hands, he can screen-and-roll effectively and his defensive versatility is through the roof. We’re talking about a guy who could potentially guard point guards and centers at the NBA level. Udoka would fall in love with that from day one. The jump shot still needs some fine-tuning, which is something common with a lot of guys on this list. But as far as tools in the toolbox go, Walker is a must-have.
the agents really on overdrive now. amen and ausar are basketball robots. scoot henderson is really 6'10 in shoes. wemby is hitting his head on subway cars. and i'm here for it
It'll go like Wemby-Scoot-Amen or Wemby-Amen-Scoot. There's no way we get someone not named Cam or Miller.
Miller crushed his second workout in front of Michael Jordan who then took him to Vegas to snort cocaine off of hookers at the Wynn.
Fast, quick, leaper, good court vision, willing passer, finisher, odd-looking shot? Reminds me of this guy who improved his shooting throughout his career, going from 45% and 25% on threes his rookie year to highs of 50% and 36%.
That's the thought I've woken up with today, feel like Miller will get Jabari'd and this was a smokescreen by New Orleans. Amen just seems too intriguing of a prospect to not end up in the top3.
So after adding the worst shooting player in the draft to the worst team in the league, who are we tanking for next season?
They were highly focused as they were not learning how to shoot a basketball in preparation for a career in basketball as guards.
I don't think they are very similar, TBH, they seem wired differently. WB is a bulldozer with the ball, but one of the worst off-ball players of all time, both on Offense and Defense. I always thought that the best use of Russ would be to go into an unorthodox extreme: 25-27 mpg, 100% USG%, on-ball hound on D.- This kid here seems more cerebral, less aggressive mentally...
There has been a surge of Amen praise this past few weeks by trusted NBA guys, especially Givony. I’m fully on board now.
