Amen Thompson tank thread

YOLO · Jun 15, 2023

J Sizzle said: ↑

Don't worry. I was told by YOLO there is absolutely no possibility at all that some teams would potentially prefer swinging for upside at the top of the draft!
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yup when you're not even in the position to draft him, you fake it and portray the clear worse player as some preferred choice. Got em! fools plenty of gullible folks

don't worry there's a week left. and after that all these random dart throws will go away

cheke64 · Jun 15, 2023

zeeshan2 said: ↑

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Well... who has a subscription to the SF news chronicle?

zeeshan2 · Jun 15, 2023

cheke64 said: ↑

Well... who has a subscription to the SF news chronicle?
Click to expand...

More than a decade ago, the twins’ father, Troy Sr., helped them develop a vision for their future. He had a third-grade Amen and Ausar create a vision board called “BASKETBALL DREAM.” There, next to a drawing of a Nike shoe and a pile of money, was a list of daily to-dos that would allow them to succeed their idol, LeBron James, as the faces of the NBA.

Amen and Ausar couldn’t have known all that their dream would require. In summer 2017, after being home-schooled for two years to maximize their training, they moved from San Leandro to Fort Lauderdale, Fla., with their dad while their mother, Maya Wilson, stayed in the Bay Area for work. Four years later, Amen and Ausar became just the third and fourth players to sign with OTE, a new Atlanta-based league providing an alternative path to the NBA.

Few fully grasped their professional potential then. Amen and Ausar were raw four-star recruits with ugly jumpers and zero interest from NBA teams. But they believed Troy Sr. when he told them they were destined for greatness. Today, Amen and Ausar are potential franchise cornerstones who draw comparisons to Hall of Famers, generate YouTube highlights with millions of views and offer hope to the next wave of stars bypassing college for the pros.

The big question now is how each will handle life on his own. Since Ausar entered the world one minute after Amen on Jan. 30, 2003, the two have relied upon each other for whatever they might need: a friendly face, motivation, tough love, food orders.

“They’re like one person in two different bodies,” said their older brother, Troy Jr., who played at City College of San Francisco and Prairie View A&M. “You’ve got to allow them to be their own individuals, but they have always been the best version of themselves together.”

Ausar, bleary-eyed, sat courtside in a gray hoodie at OTE headquarters as he munched on a waffle out of a white carton. It was 10:15 on a sunny Friday morning in early June, but he was still groggy from the twins’ workout the night before.

When Amen shuffled in about 10 minutes later, all that distinguished him was his black T-shirt. OTE officials were encouraged by a subtle sign of the brothers’ growing independence: Amen and Ausar had each made the short walk from their apartment on his own.
Months earlier, when Amen and Ausar stopped crashing in each other’s hotel rooms after away games for the first time, Troy Sr. and Maya were heartened: Their youngest boys were becoming men.

They just haven’t yet become their own men. Self-described homebodies, they watch the same anime series (“Attack on Titan”), share the same beat-up headphones and wear the same black Crocs. They both hate all kinds of cheese — except parmesan on their pasta.

But mostly, Amen and Ausar share an obsession with basketball. Many nights, after logging 12- or 13-hour days on OTE’s practice courts, they’ll curl up in a corner of the locker room to sleep. At their apartment in Atlanta’s Atlantic Station neighborhood, Amen and Ausar play the “NBA 2K” video game and discuss what they’ll do when they experience the real thing.

Some of their coaches worry that the brothers are too focused on basketball. Four years after getting their learner’s permits, neither has made time to get a driver’s license. Luke Cooper, OTE’s director of player development, assigns Amen and Ausar the same homework every weekend: Do something — anything — that’s not basketball-related.
“More often than not,” Cooper said, “they fail.”
The twins’ similarities extend into games, where some scouts must double-check their jersey numbers: Amen was No. 1 for the City Reapers this past season; Ausar was No. 0. They’re both elite transition scorers with court vision and defensive versatility.

Like many siblings who grew up playing together, Amen and Ausar excel in tandem, one twin’s strengths covering for the other’s weaknesses. Amen is the better facilitator, ball-handler and finisher; Ausar has superior off-ball movement and shooting mechanics. Their bond is so strong, speculation has intensified that a team in the lottery could mortgage its future to acquire both Thompsons.

Though a draft-night reunion is unlikely, Amen and Ausar have solidified themselves as arguably the class’s top prospects not named Victor Wembanyama, Scoot Henderson or Brandon Miller. Which twin gets selected first could depend on what a particular team needs.

“Everyone wants to know, ‘Who’s better?’” OTE general manager Damien Wilkins said of the twins, who have each gained about 25 pounds since moving to Atlanta. “The truth is, it just depends on what you’re looking for. Want a point guard? Take Amen. Need a wing? Pick Ausar.”

It didn’t take long for Troy Sr.’s prophesy to take shape. When Amen and Ausar were 8, they wrote “6-9” — the height of James, their favorite player — in black Sharpie throughout their bedroom in hopes of willing themselves to the same height. By 9, they were staring at the “BASKETBALL DREAM” vision board every morning before school.

Amen set down his steak rice bowl and pulled out his iPhone, stroking his chin as he considered whether to show some little-seen footage.

“You haven’t watched it before, have you?” he said, his eyes widening. “It’s pretty nuts.”

On the screen were two identical 6-foot, 130-pound eighth graders draining 3-pointers, delivering no-look passes and unleashing dazzling dribbling displays against a high school team that featured future NBA players Scottie Barnes and Vernon Carey Jr. Amen and Ausar weren’t even strong enough to do more than a handful of pushups, but already they could trigger oohs and aahs with the ball in their hands.

All that was missing was a physical transformation, which arrived: a 7-inch growth spurt over the next three years that helped vault Amen and Ausar into the top 50 nationally among prospects in their high school class.

Shortly after watching the twins lead Pine Crest to Florida’s Class 4A state title as juniors in spring 2021, Panthers head coach Ike Smith began to contact higher-profile prep schools on their behalf. With Pine Crest’s three other starters graduating, Smith saw no sense in asking Amen and Ausar to return for their senior seasons.

He knew how serious they were about basketball. They’d often hidden a ball under the bleachers before Smith closed the gym, knowing they could ask a janitor to let them back in for more shots.

But before a prep powerhouse could snag them, OTE swooped in, offering lucrative six-figure contracts, personalized academic programs and the chance to become basketball trailblazers.

Never mind that OTE, backed by the sports media juggernaut Overtime and a slew of celebrity investors, had no infrastructure in place: no classrooms, no training facility, no arena. Within a few Zoom meetings with league officials, Troy Sr. became convinced that another move was just what Amen and Ausar needed. Their goal was to make it big in the NBA — not college. OTE’s intensive skill-development regimen could help Amen and Ausar more than a five-month NCAA season.

With the pandemic shuttering gyms across the country, the brothers were somewhat of a mystery to many basketball people when they signed with OTE. That included Cooper, now the league’s director of player development. In July 2021, he arrived in Miami for an informal training camp with OTE’s only four signees at the time, still mulling over a job offer from the nascent league.

Within the first five minutes of scrimmaging, Cooper saw Amen and Ausar dominate defensively in ways that not even some of the NBA’s best could. They beat offensive players to their spots. They disrupted sequences before they could materialize.

“I took this job because of Amen and Ausar,” said Cooper, who had trained NBA players for seven years before joining OTE. “When you’re around basketball as much as I’ve been, you know something special when you see it.”

After an impressive pro day in October 2021, Amen and Ausar distinguished themselves as OTE’s top prospects. That first season in Atlanta, to prepare themselves for life in the NBA, they played on different teams. But at the family’s urging, Amen and Ausar reunited this past season on the City Reapers — just in case it was their last opportunity.

Troy Sr. flew in from Fort Lauderdale for every game. Maya, who still lives in San Leandro, talked with Amen and Ausar on FaceTime multiple times a day and visited as often as she could.

“That family has made tremendous sacrifices,” said Dave Leitao, the City Reapers’ head coach. “I know Amen and Ausar understand that. You can tell in how they work that they don’t take any of it for granted.”

As part of its preseason slate, OTE’s draft-eligible players did a European tour. Ausar struggled with his shot and saw his draft stock slip. After committing a late turnover that doomed OTE in a loss to Serbian club KK Mega Basket, Ausar confided in Amen at the team’s Belgrade hotel that he had begun to doubt himself.

That led Amen to open up to Ausar in a way he said he never had before. About how Ausar is the best player he has ever been around. About how Amen often finds himself envious over how easily the game comes to Ausar. About how, despite being the older brother, Amen looks up to Ausar — not just in basketball, but in how he carries himself.

As Amen spoke, Ausar felt as if a weight had been lifted off his shoulders. Everything would be OK. They had each other.

“We’re so used to pushing each other and competing,” said Ausar, who would go on to win OTE’s regular-season and Finals Most Valuable Player awards. “But at that time, I just really needed him — as a friend, as a brother. It meant a lot to me. It’s something I won’t forget.”
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zeeshan2 · Jun 15, 2023

J.R. · Jun 15, 2023

Yeah, yeah, yeah, heard the same **** about Jalen Green (and many others along the way).

“Eat, sleeps, and breathes basketball!”
“Gym rat”
“Undeniable work ethic”
“Wants to be great!”

_____________________________
“[Green is] very coachable and he’s willing to do the work, put in the work and he’s hungry to learn. He asks a lot of questions about players in the league. And so, when you have that kind of enthusiasm, willing to do the work and not only just do the work, but just the desire to learn as much as you can about the game and what you have, that’s a joy for any coach. And he understands that because he’s so highly talented that he’s already been subjected to people coming at him and trying to knock him off his perch because of where he’s been ranked and the expectation level of him.

And he comes every day with that attitude that I’ve seen in some of the special young players that I’ve coached that get it right away. It’s like they don’t want to just make it to the league. They want to impact the team and make a place for themselves and be special. So, he’s always wanting to work. I had to tell him [once] after I cut practice a little short … he said, ‘Coach, I want to be great.’ And I said, ‘You will be great. You keep that attitude, but you also have to let your body rest sometimes and recover.’ …

He has that NBA bounce. He has that ‘it’ factor that when you see it you say, ‘OK, I’m keeping an eye on this guy because he has a chance to be really special.’
_____________________________

So obsessed and focused, neither twin has a shot. But they sure can jump out of the gym!

zeeshan2 · Jun 15, 2023

Big thread on Amen

The word generational has been thrown around a lot during this draft cycle, and Amen Thompson’s athleticism is one of the main reasons for that. Amen will be the most electric athlete on the court the minute he steps onto NBA hardwood for the first time. Amen’s first step burst is so dynamic that it feels next to impossible to stop him from getting into the paint, and once there, he can rise up with such immediacy and elevation that he feels like he’s flying. When you add in the fact that Amen is also a 6’7” point guard that can make any pass in the book, it feels like it should be pretty easy to place my faith in the kind of prospect that consistently does some pretty special things on the basketball court.

And yet Amen’s evaluation has been the root cause of many sleepless nights, as the Jack Shephard side of my brain has trouble coming to terms with fully buying into a player that is so far behind developmentally with regards to perhaps the most important skill a perimeter player needs in the modern NBA game, regardless of how magical some of his highlight reels feel.

It’s become arguably one of the most fascinating case studies in recent draft memory. When Zion Williamson got drafted first overall by the New Orleans Pelicans in 2019, many of us “joked” that Zion just became the best athlete in the NBA. Amen Thompson has the potential to have that exact same storyline when he goes onto the stage to shake Adam Silver’s hand on draft night.

But at the same time, Corey, you’re completely right. The evaluation of Amen has resulted in plenty of restless nights. On the one hand, it’s easy to fall in love with the tools that Amen has at his disposal. He’s an incredible athlete at 6’7” with terrifying explosiveness and the ability to go from 0 to 100 MPH in the blink of an eye.

So that’s just what I did. I hit the road to get an up-close look at both Amen and Ausar Thompson. When I witnessed them both in person, it didn’t take long for me to buy in with the tools on full display. Amen and Ausar both have promising frames at 6’7” that pair beautifully with their athleticism and ability to float all over the floor. But I knew that there was only one area that I needed to get answers on…

The shot.

As evaluators, we hate to use this phrase more than anything in the world. “If the shot just comes around…” Trust us when we say this, we hate to have to hang our hats on that specific set of words. But with the Thompson twins, it’s more evident than ever. Just watching in warmups, I could get an idea of where both of the potential Top 10 selections stood. Amen looked to clearly be favoring the work in progress. There was a lack of consistency that looked to almost be creating a mental block.

When it came to Ausar, I found myself a bit puzzled. The shot looked improved when it came to fundamentals, but it was a bit slow in warmups—almost as if it was someone that was clearly making a calculated effort to eliminate some bad habits. Once the game started, that idea clearly got shifted. In one of his first touches of the game, Ausar had a clear catch-and-shoot opportunity that was lightning quick with his release and resulted in nothing but net.

I still left that experience with the realization that both Ausar and Amen Thompson have the tools to be legit serious talents at the next level. But at the same time, I continued to wonder just where that projection could take them. Is the superstar upside legit with both? Are we putting up too lofty of expectations? Are these phenoms both just set to be effective players at the NBA level for years to come? If so, isn’t that last sentence something we should get excited about instead of looking down upon?

You hit the nail on the head, Rucker; sometimes you need to get up close eyes on dudes. I’ve hit the road a ton this year to watch prospects live, but I was most anxious to see Amen and Ausar—mostly because I HAD to see the shots up close.

Now I want to really focus on Amen for a minute because there may not be a more important swing skill for a prospect than Amen becoming a respectable shooter. If he shoots it in the league, we’re talking superstar. If you were doing a First Take segment on the shot you could make passionate arguments for or against it even mattering. Amen’s shooting has been very bad for years now and he can still get a paint touch pretty much at will; the competition is certainly questionable, but we work with what we have. He’s also made visible tweaks to his jumper that could maybe get you to lean into a more optimistic outlook. The results clearly haven’t been there, but the work has been. The question is: does an NBA team completely rebuild his form from scratch, or keep moving in the same direction?

Let’s break down the specifics of how his mechanics have changed over the last two years.

In year one with OTE, Amen was a bit of an…umm…tentative shooter. He only took 61 total jump shots—on which he shot 29.5%—but when he did let it fly, his form was all over the place. His release point was low and out in front of his face with a follow-through that ended at a 40-degree angle. His base featured a pronounced leg kick and an awkward back bend in his posture. The whole thing looked uncomfortable

In year two, Amen saw progress in getting shots up, increasing his attempts to 114. His percentage, however, dipped to 28.9%. More concerning is his 33.3% on unguarded catch-and-shoot jumpers. Teams would often not only dare him to shoot but double dog dare him to shoot, giving him the Simmons/Westbrook treatment. Not great, Bob. But if you’re a believer in Amen as a shooter down the line, you can put your faith in the idea that while the percentages were bad, he had made it a point of emphasis to rebuild the form. When I attended the OTE Pro Day in October, I was really locked in on watching Amen go through his shooting progressions. It was clear that he had cleaned up his base by eliminating that leg kick and forward lean, and while he raised his release point above his line of sight, he was still finishing his shots with the 40-degree follow-through.

I still have some pretty serious concerns about Amen as an on-ball shooter, and I even still have reservations about him as a potential catch-and-shoot guy, but you have to at least be encouraged by the work.

Amen has got a lot of things going for him to still be a weapon at the next level. We have a lethal 6’7” playmaking wizard with turbo speed in the open court and the explosiveness to be an NBA Jam stunt double. You pair that with the defensive upside to be a plus defender at the next level, there’s a lot of stuff trending in the right direction.

Some passionately view Amen as a Top 3 pick, while others view him as closer to the Top 8 in the class. The draft has always been, and will always be, about fit. Things can happen on the night of the lottery that make a potential “fit” challenging for a player like Amen. While the talent is tantalizing, an organization has to have the system, patience, and creativity to allow Amen to let his strengths blossom early on in his career so he can establish some confidence.

That’s the biggest thing for me that needs to come along with the shot. If Amen can get out and run, he looks like an artist painting a beautiful masterpiece. His confidence is surging on the court, and he gives off “showtime” vibes with his burst and creativity. But when you put the sports car in the city with stop lights everywhere, that’s where some traffic can present obstacles.
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apollo33 · Jun 15, 2023

J.R. said: ↑

Yeah, yeah, yeah, heard the same **** about Jalen Green (and many others along the way).

“Eat, sleeps, and breathes basketball!”
“Gym rat”
“Undeniable work ethic”
“Wants to be great!”

_____________________________
“[Green is] very coachable and he’s willing to do the work, put in the work and he’s hungry to learn. He asks a lot of questions about players in the league. And so, when you have that kind of enthusiasm, willing to do the work and not only just do the work, but just the desire to learn as much as you can about the game and what you have, that’s a joy for any coach. And he understands that because he’s so highly talented that he’s already been subjected to people coming at him and trying to knock him off his perch because of where he’s been ranked and the expectation level of him.

And he comes every day with that attitude that I’ve seen in some of the special young players that I’ve coached that get it right away. It’s like they don’t want to just make it to the league. They want to impact the team and make a place for themselves and be special. So, he’s always wanting to work. I had to tell him [once] after I cut practice a little short … he said, ‘Coach, I want to be great.’ And I said, ‘You will be great. You keep that attitude, but you also have to let your body rest sometimes and recover.’ …

He has that NBA bounce. He has that ‘it’ factor that when you see it you say, ‘OK, I’m keeping an eye on this guy because he has a chance to be really special.’
_____________________________

So obsessed and focused, neither twin has a shot. But they sure can jump out of the gym!
Click to expand...

Isn't Jabari advertised as a gym rat too, why are there so many gym rodents

zeeshan2 · Jun 15, 2023

apollo33 said: ↑

Isn't Jabari advertised as a gym rat too, why are there so many gym rodents
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that's why we are getting a new practice facility; makes sense now

Dredd · Jun 15, 2023

Tilman has already signed off on the Amen selection according to sources.

Tilman - "What's the kids name, Amen? A good christian man right there, get it done."

Haymitch · Jun 15, 2023

It's actually not good to start specializing in a sport at age 8. Age 14 is the earliest. For orthopedic reasons and for mental reasons. Check out the "American Development Model" for more info on a well-researched approach to developing athletes. It started with hockey* but then expanded to most sports.

*US hockey adopted the model from Norway, who dominates the winter Olympics despite having a population the size of Minnesota.

CHAMPBOY · Jun 15, 2023

We need to pray for Amen….please God Almighty!

Snow Villiers · Jun 15, 2023

Dredd said: ↑

Tilman has already signed off on the Amen selection according to sources.

Tilman - "What's the kids name, Amen? A good christian man right there, get it done."
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Very Texans-esque

RoyalGuard · Jun 15, 2023

The more espn articles I see with Amen,the more this screams Banchero 2.0 to me. Lol

cheke64 · Jun 15, 2023

Haymitch said: ↑

It's actually not good to start specializing in a sport at age 8. Age 14 is the earliest. For orthopedic reasons and for mental reasons. Check out the "American Development Model" for more info on a well-researched approach to developing athletes. It started with hockey* but then expanded to most sports.

*US hockey adopted the model from Norway, who dominates the winter Olympics despite having a population the size of Minnesota.
Click to expand...

You can kiss your kids basketball playing time good bye if they start at 14.

Haymitch · Jun 15, 2023

cheke64 said: ↑

You can kiss your kids basketball playing time good bye if they start at 14.
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No, they start at 5-6. But they cross train, doing several sports. Emphasis is on learning basics and having fun - not in winning. Training time is limited to no more than 3 hours per week for the first few years. By 14 is when you start to specialize and go hardcore - assuming, of course, the child actually wants to specialize in that sport.

Verbal Christ · Jun 15, 2023

If Amen lands here it will be quite a ride next season when guys are trying to excuse away the bricks and terrible defense in favor of "development" and "court vision".

Throwing darts.

Hank McDowell · Jun 15, 2023

Gym rat for over a decade, basketball freak, still can't shoot the ball. So how does that change when, from all accounts, he can't work any harder at it? It's not from a lack of effort, he just can't shoot the basketball.

J Sizzle · Jun 15, 2023

Verbal Christ said: ↑

If Amen lands here it will be quite a ride next season when guys are trying to excuse away the bricks and terrible defense in favor of "development" and "court vision".

Throwing darts.
Click to expand...

If Amen steps in and immediately provides court vision then that is already a Day 1 improvement over our fearless leader Kevin Porter Jr. Even "terrible" defense would be an improvement over KPJ, as well.

RC Cola · Jun 15, 2023

Hank McDowell said: ↑

Gym rat for over a decade, basketball freak, still can't shoot the ball. So how does that change when, from all accounts, he can't work any harder at it? It's not from a lack of effort, he just can't shoot the basketball.
Click to expand...

Think one of the articles said they didn't have a shooting coach until they got to OTE (and even then, it sounds like they switch between the OTE shooting coach, Mike Miller, and who knows if others are involved?). Not saying it is great, but Amen's shooting numbers did improve between year 1 and year 2 (especially his FT% numbers). Also increased his 3PA per game (from 2.0 to 2.9).

I have no idea how long it takes to "fix" a shot, especially if you need to work nearly from scratch. I'm not sure if they just tried to tweak his shot at OTE or completely re-work it, but if it was the latter, I'm guessing that takes time.

J Sizzle · Jun 15, 2023

RoyalGuard said: ↑

The more espn articles I see with Amen,the more this screams Banchero 2.0 to me. Lol
Click to expand...

Impossible. Upside does not matter. Shooting is all that matters, which is why we should take Grady Dick at #4.

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