The problem with this is: where does TS% show you that we have essentially forfeited 3PT shooting from Amen - something not only critical to offenses but that improves the chances of 4 other people scoring? That we have twice as many non-shooters on the floor as everyone else? If the paint is packed his attempts go down. If it's not the attempts go up. We don't want it to go down. We need points. When his shots go down, it's not helping anyone even though it's helping his TS%. If he could shoot, we would benefit a lot, especially in gravity. Surely this much you can acknowledge. That's not captured at all. That he gets a ton of points in transition and from dunkers spot and tip ins is totally irrelevant when we're in a playoff series and everyone gets back in transition, everyone fights for every rebound, no one is allowing backdoor cuts. At that point and since the beginning of basketball, you need to give it to the guy who can score in a diversity of ways on an iso possession. TS% will not tell you who that guy is. It's a real thing which we all talk about and gravity is just a measurement of how closely a team insists on guarding you. The physical distanced is being measured. Amen is not guarded that physically closely just because he can't shoot. A smart defender would sag a bit. We don't want that. The guy sagging is that much closer to taking a swipe at Jalen or Sengun. It's that much less space for Brooks slow shot. It's a very big deal. Gravity is taken so seriously by all the pioneers of all the stats you've ever posted. I think you're missing out and underrating it.
I think you may be mistaking "on ball gravity" with "finishing talent". BBball Index does not factor in scoring at all for "on ball gravity". "This metric aims to measure how much attention and resources a team uses trying to defend a player while on-ball. Players with high On-Ball Gravity are ones we’d expect to see double teamed more often than others and see more aggressive screen coverages to get the ball out of their hands." https://www.bball-index.com/glossary/
What's a touch. Is Aaron Gordon doing much in the way of dho hand offs like Amen? There are many touches Amen has that aren't touches where he is attacking POA defenses off the dribble. We are also referring to a team that has a legitimate heliocentric offense. Does Amen have more on ball talent than Gordon? Yes. But their roles are more closely aligned than Green and Amen. For example Amen's unassisted rate of fgs made is closer to Gordon's 36% than Jalen 's 62%.
What? That is exactly what I'm saying on ball gravity is. Green attracts more help defenders than Amen when each respective player has the ball in their hands. That's what t means. That means Green is more likely to drive in more congested traffic than Amen.
100% agree there - but I do think guys are starting to guard him in the same way they guard Giannis which is to say you don't close out super hard on him, but you also don't give him enough space to get a head of steam and run over/around you. There are very few players who get that type of love as poor/non shooters but Amen is starting to get that rep on a list with Giannis and Westbrook because of the speed and power they play with.
This concept that Amen is smart because he plays his role and Jalen is being "show horned in" says a lot about how useless your analysis is. Amen plays his role because that's what he's asked to do by his coaching staff. Jalen plays his role because that's what the coaching staff asks of him. Someone on the roster will have to attack POA perimeter defenses. Jalen Green isn't going against the wishes of the coaching staff when he is the primary performer player attacking POA defenses. It's this simple. Out of all the perimeter players on this roster, Jalen Green will have the highest scoring efficiency in the high usage role of attacking POA defenses. This is like saying that we are shoe horning in Sengun to a offensive role due to the fact that he has a worse scoring efficiency than Amen..... AND Jalen. But I doubt you would say that. We have three guys with the highest volume of attacking set POA defenses with Jalen, Fred and Sengun. Jalen has the highest scoring efficiency of that group.
You are making me out to be a Jalen hater + I am far from that. I am just surprised that there is even an Amen vs Jalen debate by Rockets fans. Amen as a starter has actually increased fastbreak points opportunities + pace for Rockets which has directly + positively benefited Jalen. Amen + Jalen's roles on offense are not just different but exceedingly complementary.
No doubt Amen is one of the very best at attacking a sagging defender. He's just masterful at turning his athleticism functional. Essentially Derrick Rose with a lot more strength and doesn't give you time to get set up fully.
You had "scoring" in your initial post. And the defintion of "on ball gravity" by BBall Index literally says that goal is to get ball out of that players hands, nothing about efficacy of scoring (which I agree can be inferred).
Not at all man I don't know why you think I'm attacking you recently. I know you're not a Jalen hater. I agree with your points except transition (if you meant it's only beneficial to one of them). You can track my posts to over 1 year before Amen started saying: Jalen is alone in transition, pair with with someone other than Brooks and watch him bring us new easy points. They are helping each other there. Amen is surely assisting on a lot of those because Fred could never keep up with Jalen darting full speed up the court and somehow we have a passing C who never seems to outlet. Believe me Amen would see a dip in assists and transition points if he were out there with our slow poke lineup (Sengun, Bari, Brooks, FVV). This pairing is excellent especially since Jalen has picked up his shooting. What's good for Amen is good for Jalen and most of the time vice versa. We've never even seen these two operate with below average spacing. We've only seen them in atrocious spacing. We don't even fully know what we have yet. It's a blessing we even have these two to debate about.
I understand the BBall Index definition to mean gravity is more about creating spacing for teammates. Jalen's gravity creates more opportunities for the team to score, not for himself to score.
I like seeing Amen grow with big stats, but he was at his best with FVV and giving us 17 and 10 on near perfect baseline cuts and putbacks, while also putting most his energy into playing elite defense. He still plays great defense but not as hard since taking on more offensive usage, and his TO's are up. He just isn't quite ready for point guard. He is an elite 2nd or 3rd star but his efficiency really drops when he becomes the focus of the defense. He's too talented for the bench, but the Rockets really need Dillon's shooting.
With Bari and Tari rotating in the starting lineup with FVV out, do y’all think that indicates Ime with go with a FVV / Green / Brooks / Amen / Sengun starting lineup when FVV returns, with Bari and Tari getting 30+ minutes off the bench?
I think the goal should be at the very least to consolidate the rotation by playoffs to 8 guys Fred Alpi Jalen Amen Bari Brooks Tari Adams Where everyone but Adams is getting near 30 minutes or more. This will reduce the amount of really shitty line ups that Ime sometimes puts out that puzzles your mind. Can't waste minutes on junk line ups in the playoffs. Spot minutes for Cam if the entire offense is dog **** during the game and the teams needs some sort of offensive spark.
Good question. Could be the case. Jabari needs to get his legs back under him. Had dead legs vs Utah and it showed. Still a mystery when FVV will be back though. Small conspiracy theorist in me thinks that they actually want FVV to be sitting out so they can get this data for the offseason.
Amen is a classic example of his bite is worse than his bark. Doesn't seem to talk much, but when it's time for a fight he's not backing down. I like it.
