Around that time, he was averaging 22/10/7 that’s All-Star level production for a center. If Sengun didn't deserve it, Amen will probably never make it.
Some second or third option players i'd swap with Amen without hesitation: Jaden McDaniels, Stephon Castle, Brandon Miller. Some of them are already better while others are around his level but have higher ceilings and none of these guys right now deserves a 250M contract. Amen's absolute ceiling is the third option on a serious contender which is a great player just not the guy you build around.
I like Jayden McDaniels. He's what I hope Amen can be similar to. It also took Jayden a while, to get to where he is at now.
In the playoffs, Amen’s efficiency from midrange was the equivalent of making 28% on 3pters. I’m estimating. He already shoots better than 28% on corner 3’s. Taking 3’s would have accelerated his development and been better for our spacing. I told you 2 years ago it would be idiotic to waste time on a midrange jumper. It takes 4-5 years to be above average at midrange (if starting from scratch). It’s a really childish thought that because it’s closer to the rim it’s easier to develop. It’s not. There are always more 3pt shooters than midrange shooters in the NBA. Almost all middies are pull ups (there’s basically no catch and shoot). That’s much harder than 3’s which are catch and shoot at least half the time. I hope he just keeps working on above the break 3’s. Keep improving the handle at the pace he’s already been doing. Doesn’t need anything else.
I love Amen but maxing him out will likely be a huge mistake down the road. I just don’t see a guy who can create a shot even if he does learn how to shoot the basketball at some point. There’s a reason why the Sixers in the mid to late 2000’s struggled with Igoudala as their primary maxed out superstar. Iggy was an amazing defensive player but on offense he just never too that next level because his shooting at that point in his career just wasn’t happening. I worry that if the Rockets max him out like I think they’ll need to, we are headed for a similar path just because of the way the cap is. Again… love Amen but this is likely the 3rd or 4th best player on a contender unless he comes back this summer making a huge leap in his shooting.
Or maybe he just believes in Amen's potential to improve more than you do? It's okay to have different opinions, it's good to be open-minded and willing to change your mind based on new evidence, but it's also okay if you have a higher level of belief in a player's intangibles and ability to grow than others. These kinds of things are always going to be hard to quantify because it's the human element at play.
Amen is Shawn Marion Alpi is Luis Scola Tari is Mario Elie Jabari is Robert Horry Reed is FVV That is where they all currently reside, none of them a top notch must build around player. Amen has to get a shot, or he is a super role player Alpi is topped out, this is who he is.... Tari is a super role player Jabari is a starting level jack of all trade Reed is a 6th man shooter atm - unless he significantly improves his handles. DD
I think this is the most reasonable take you have ever made other than maybe Alpi. Not sure he has topped out, but it is possible. Congrats on showing some objectivity when it comes to Reed.
maybe, but he's the one calling other people idiots because they're down on amen. i just wanted to clarify that IMO giving amen a max contract is much more "idiotic" than trading him or giving him a fair contract at around 25-30M.
If you’re talking about me, I’m not calling people idiotic for having a different opinion just those Reed only and Sengun only fans that disparage him, because they feel threatened. It is a logical take that he may not ever develop a shot and not worth the max. I think most of the league disagrees and that his other traits and potential would make multiple teams take the gamble. He is our only player with super star potential. If he insists on the max, he’s going to get it, if not from the Rockets someone else. If Ime is still the coach next year, I could see Amen trying to force a trade. Your opinion is he will never develop a shot and be worth the max and that is fine. My opinion is he will and I believe the Rockets will not gamble on you being right if he forces their hand.
who would i be talking to? of course it's you, no one in this thread is calling anyone idiotic for having a different opinion. you're entitled to yours, of course, but everyone has been civil in this thread till you got here. as for the original discussion, when you say "if he insists on the max, he’s going to get it, if not from the Rockets someone else" you make it look like there's only 2 options: letting him go or giving him the max. but IMO if there's even a small chance amen is adamant on getting the max, we should trade him as soon as possible. the only way he would be worth a max contract would be if he develops his handles enough to create advantages off the dribble and a shot so he can space the floor and reduce the predictabily in his game. IMO he will never develop both, and even one is a longshot. but as i said, you can have your opinion, you just shouldn't insult someone for having a different one. this isn't what this forum is about.
If he significantly improved either his handle or his jump shot he'd already easily be worth the max in my opinion. At that point you're looking at a value proposition similar to a player like late 20s/early 30s Jimmy Butler, so kind of a borderline top 10 player. He'd be a 20, 8 and 6 guy with elite defense and high scoring efficiency. If he improved both he'd be in MVP conversations. I agree improving both to a significant degree is very unlikely though.
Your Sengun bias corrupts any take you jave about Amen because you see him as a threat to your boy. How can you speak in absolutes about another person's future? You can believe it, but talking like you know for sure undermines your credibility.
Sure, as the first option he averages more .... but the efficiency just isn't there to justify making him that first option.
I don’t think he needs to be our leading scorer, but he needs to be initiating the action with this current roster. Nobody else is capable.
Can't max Ben Simmons minus PG skills. The defense is awesome but he needs to develop a shot to be a star.
If Amen doesn't have a jumper, he needs a full bag at attacking the rim. Apart from his lack of improvement in shooting, another main disappointment with him is the surprising lack of ability to finish or get fouled at the rim driving from the perimeter. His natural speed and body control should make him a monster blowing by defenders. Instead, we see how he stops 5 feet from the basket, turns, and either take a bad fadeaway or tries to make a pass in a crowd. He should go all the way, make a midair pump fake and jam it or get fouled.
