But even after voting, I am 100% behind Griffin. And not just since he is the PF on the Rockets, but because he fits in well with the current team makeup... opens up the middle for Yao and the cutters with his outside game and has shown he is developing more of an inside game.
I voted for Eddie because the "in thing" is to vote for that kid playing for the Suns. The favor of the month is something that cannot be counted on. He's an inside player with no outside touch. Please, please don't compare him to the Mailman or any real good PF right now. Sure his motor is on high and he's aggressive but if and when NBA defenses start to pay attention to him like they are doing to Ming, what does Amare have to fall back on, his shot??? Also, how well does he play defense? I guess we will find out on Wednesday. Amare vs. Griffin.
Eddie Griffin isn't even close the player Amare is. Has he ever hung 38/14 on a team? 21 rebounds? Let alone in his rookie season? He is not a better pure shotblocker he simply has more basketball experience in college than Stoudemire which makes his timing better. Amare got enough finesse to dominate the post. Eddie Griffin isn't even as good as Drew Gooden right now. Would you rather have Rasheed Wallace or Moses Malone? hmmmm tough question....
Only time will tell. As I recall, there was a guy named Daryl "Chocolate Thunder" Dawkins who came out of high school about the same time as Karl Malone. Dawkins was incredible his first two years and Malone was merely good. Which one went on to be a "Top 50" player and perennial All-Star? My point is this: It is far too early to tell. I would rather put my money on Fast Eddie because of his skills, attitude and pure team play. Both players will get get bigger and stronger with age, but which one will really work on his game? That is the question no one can answer at this point.
I love Eddie, love his upside, love his skills, think he will be a tremendous player in this league. That said, I voted for Amare. Why? Because, with Yao as the centerpiece, I would really like an intimidator at the four position to protect him. Amare has proven already that there are few that can be as intimidating as him. I think Amare could get huge numbers in both rebounds and points working with this team. Yao pulls the opposing center out of the paint for the high pick and Amare controls the paint. Amare would get all those alley oops that Cato gets today plus some and would get plenty of garbage points in this offense. And Yao, with such good vision, would find him with interior passing several times a game I'm sure. Amare would do much of what Brand would do for this team and would be a great fit. Like I said, I love Griff and am glad we have him, but Amare would be a better fit IMO
I think the only way you pick Griffin is if you think his body is going to fill out and allow him to be a low post threat. If Griffin stays thin then he's just a glorified Robert Horry. I think Stoudemire is a better compliment to Yao Ming right now. Amare would command double teams down low (is he a good passer? don't know) while it's unlikely EG will any time soon unless he really bulks up. I'd prefer not to have two post players who play a finesse game. I really like Amare's offensive rebounding and the way he can just overwhelm people with his strength/quickness. Also, from what I've seen Amare has a great attitude so I don't know why some of you are kind of taking shots at him by implying Eddie is a team player and has a good attitude while Amare is not. There is nothing I've seen that says Amare is selfish or has an attitude problem. In fact from interviews of him he sounds extremely humble, respectful, and motivated.
I think, for the Rockets, EG is a better fit. Rudy likes versatility out of his guys. He likes shooting guards who can play the 3 if they have to, power forwards who can play the center or 3 if they have to ... and I think EG has more versatility in his game than Amare. That said, I wouldn't mind if Amare were a Rocket. He has a nice big body, and plays with lots of heart & hustle.
As I said, during the pre-draft I was hoping the Rockets would find a way to draft him. I certainly did not mean to imply there is a question about Amare's attitude. In the same vein, because Eddie is quieter -- actually expressionless -- that does not mean he has no heart or desire. He gets his rebounds and points in fewer minutes because the Rockets have more up front talent than the Suns. Again, as I said, only time will tell. Amare may turn out to be another Daryl Dawkins or he could become a young Shawn Kemp. Eddie might be another Robert Horry, but then again he could become another Elvin Hayes.
I had voted for Stoudamire, but by the time I got to the end of the thread I wasn't sure anymore. Each have some pros and cons. Stoudamire's Pros: He's best close to the basket which would be unique on the team. Griffin is working on his inside game but just isn't nor will ever be as strong as Amare, which will affect him in the low post. In Griffin's defense, Yao is a better-than-advertised low post option and might be better than Amare there because of his ability to pass from the post; so Amare's lowpost skills might go unused on the Rockets. He's built to be an enforcer. We don't have anyone like that. I think Griffin will bulk up, but he can only do so much with his genes. Griffin's Pros: He's got range. This will pull defenders away from the basket to allow room for Yao in the low post and/or cutters. Stoudamire can't create the spacing Griffin can. However, if Stoudamire is a better lowpost player than Yao (dubious), than the other shooters can be making space for him. He can block shots. He is really a gifted shotblocker, which I love to have on the team. Amare's defense here is that we also have Yao and Cato, so we may have more shotblocking than we need. But, I don't know if we can have too much. After talking it out, I think Griffin is better suited for the way the Rockets team is designed. The one thing Amare has that we need is the toughness. But, I don't think that cancels what Griffin brings in terms of range and defense.
While Horry played center in college, he simply refused to bang inside with the pro's, or at least during the regular season. When we traded Thorpe away, Rudy asked him to play PF, but he said "no", at least not in the regular season. To his credit in his first 2-3 years in the league he had decent athleticism to play SF (remember "the taller Scottie Pippen" comparison). After he lost it he has tried to play PF for the Lakers but again, he just would not grind it out... Eddie on the other hand is playing PF from the get go and doesn't seem to mind it. If he doesn't bulk up, I am more afraid that he'll be the second coming of Joe Smith, rather than Horry.
I am high on Eddie but Amare is probably the 2nd (after Yao) and no less than the 3rd (after Yao, Gasol) most promising player to come out in the last 3 year drafts. One of the key differences I see is attitude. It is amazing that a rookie NBA power foward strait out of high school both is capable to, and does, intimdate his opponents more often then not. As far as fitting in with the Rockets, both have their advantages. Eddie has range, but Amare would be a great answer to other teams getting physical on Francis and Yao--something I think we still need. In sum there is no way I wouldn't take Amare, but that isn't a knock on Griffin or the Griffin pick, the former wasn't a possibility unless we didn't choose Yao. I am still thrilled we got Yao and Griffin in our latest drafts.
If you even begin to compare Amare's desire/work ethic/motivation with that of Griffin's, I suggest you leave the conversation. There is not one person who knows Amare who won't tell you that he works as hard as, if not harder than, Michela Jordan and Kobe Bryant. No questioning his desire. It's not just fire, it's flames from hell. All this guy needs to do is develop a jumper, and rest assured, he will. Do your research if you're going to make a judgement. Only edge Griffin has AT THIS MOMENT is being able to hit the 3, and being a slightly better shotblocker. Amare is stronger, better built, a better rebounder, has more desire, defends better, and scores at a much higher percentage. I'm an Eddie fan, and I'll stick by OUR guy, but right now, Amare's looking much better.
And there's the key -- right there in your last statement. Right now, Amare's looking much better. I wish we had both, but I'm very content and happy the Rockets have Eddie Griffin. And I WILL compare their work ethics. Eddie spent the summer in the weight room and hours in the gym working on his shot. Most 19-year-olds with $1M+ would have been out sowing some oats. Eddie just does everything in a quiet way. Yes, Amare worked hard all summer, but he was working to move up in the draft. That is admirable, too, don't get me wrong. However, we are comparing a kid who wanted the bucks with one who already had his. Now that they both have money, who will continue to work and improve? For the good of the game, I hope they both do. At the ends of their careers I hope people have debates like "Who was better: Chamberlain or Russell?"
Joe Smith has never been a spot up three point shooter. The way RudyT is using Eddie reminds me a lot of the way he used Robert Horry. Spotting up at the top of the key, defending in the post, and I'm sure eventually he'll be using Eddie to make entry passes to Yao Ming just like he used Robert Horry. I think Rudy just likes that versatility but it's not the best thing for Eddie Griffin.
I'm just glad this hasn't been an Eddie bashing thread. Stoudemire is an unusal physical specimen for his age, and his stat. lines have been great. On top of that, Ive been very impressed watching him. If he and the Suns and Yao and the Rockets continue their current pace, Stoudemire winning the ROY would surprise me only because Stern and the league want to promote Yao in any way they can. I think Stoudemire's going to be a very good and possibly great player. Eddie Griffin's potential is something for which I don't have a relevant comparison. I like this kid a lot, and I've noticed throughout the season he's made some big plays when the game was on the line (when he personally was having a bad one). and I like his mentality (I don't know how many Rockets I can say that about). I voted for Eddie, because this season just is about this team making the playoffs and then embracing the future. So far, so good.
If Eddie doesn't bring his "A" game, he will be embarrased against Amare. The good thing is Eddie has been playing pretty good lately. When Eddie stay inside the 17ft range he has been effective lately, he struggles when he starts floating to the 3pt line.Amare brought it to Duncan and he will bring it to eddie. The problem is, Eddie seems to have problems against those real agressive physical types. I hope he comes out intense and hustling like he has the last couple of times. It should be very interesting.
No question who is better after tonights game. I still think that EG has the potential to be a all-star but Amare is in a league of his own. If he ever learns to shoot or develop a post up game he will become the best player in the NBA. I can't really think of another player to compare Amare to at age 20 that was that quick, explosive, and strong. Kemp was never that good at 20 years old.
