Conroy, Temple, and Taylor were irrelevant. There's no need to talk about their garbage time. Incorporating talent should not be hard, especially for a guy already familiar with Adelman's sets like Martin. Adding John Salmons improved Milwaukee immediately. Adding Jamison did nothing for Cleveland this year, and probably will do nothing for them next year even if Lebron stays and they have a training camp together. Trading Landry for Martin was a lateral move, talent-wise. We won't see the true value of the trade until we get the NY picks. Oklahoma City has nearly $13 million in cap space. Utah has a lotto pick. San Antonio is trying to bring in Tiago Splitter and is rumored to be chasing free agents. Dallas is rumored to be after Lebron. Standing pat is not an option because none of the other Western conference teams will do the same.
I completely disagree. Moving Landry allowed Scola to increase his productoin. Allowed us to get Hill who was productive. Martin takes the scoring load off Ariza, who played much better once sharing the court with Martin, and gave Brooks a scoring partner. That move made us better. Fact of the matter is that we went through our most injured stretch at the same time that we changed half our roster. If you don't think that affected how we played then you weren't watching. I mean do you remember how Martin played the first week and then when he and Brooks had no defensive help for a stretch? And we're adding Yao, hopefully. If it is obvious that we're not good enough next year with even with Yao we can make a move, big or small, at the deadline. And by stand pat I don't mean just completely ignore everything and go with what we got. I mean to not accept a trade unless it is an absolute steal for us. I don't want to break the bank and explode this team for what could be modest returns. We have this core together for the next 3-4 years, patience reaps rewards.
I couldn't disagree more. Carl Landry, while a fan favorite, was an undersized PF who playing 30mpg was only averaging 16.8ppg, 5.9rpg, and less than a block per. Before the the Landry-Martin swap, we did not have a SG- Ariza was awkwardly filling that for us. Martin answered that need immediately. Kevin Martin is one of the most efficient scorers in the game- for the Rockets, he shot .43% from the field, .92% from the charity stripe, and .310 from behind the Arc. Now, with an off-season to work in Adelman's system, it should improve. Beyond that, with Yao's, Kevin is a perfect compliment to help space to the floor with his ability to shoot. I'm at a complete loss as to you have failed to see the value of this trade. Side note- there is only one extra pick, not two.
Moving Landry helped balance the roster, avoiding redundancy on the wings. Other than that, everything we gained we also lost. Landry was an incredibly efficient scorer himself and somewhat of a go-to option in the 4th quarter You overstate Hill's contribution. He wasn't that productive, just not horrible. Jeffries was surprisingly effective, but not someone to keep going forward. We struggled with Lowry and Ariza's absence pre-trade, as well. Getting Martin did not provide immediate help. The record pre- and post-trade does not lie. I like Martin and think he complements Yao much better than Landry, but I am also not counting on Yao for the long-term. We have great pieces already, just not enough to compete. We need another star, whether it's a steal or not. The biggest mistake Morey could make is to be too attached to his players to make a move. Look at the Celtics. They had great pieces in Allen and Pierce, but knew they had to get KG. Jefferson, Gomes, and West are not trash; they're damn good players. Boston paid a high price in young, productive guys, but I highly doubt they'd have won anything had they not gotten KG. There is no KG available to us, but we're not giving someone of Al Jefferson's level either. We're not the Lakers with few expendable assets and a set roster to compete for the next few years. We need to consolidate our assets into something more, like Boston did.
Right, that makes us a better, more equipped team. AB took the load as the 4th quarter scorer in Landry's absence. What I meant with Hill is that he, along with Jeffries and Scola's increased production, filled in the hole Landry left. The trade didn't make us weaker at PF but stronger at SG, a lateral move, we lost next to nothing at PF thanks to players stepping up while simulataneously making our SG and SF positions (Ariza shifts to natural position) much, much better. Not a lateral move, but a marked improvement. Only Lowry missed significant time pre trade. We were in free fall at that point. We make the trade and immediately Ariza goes down. He and Lowry come back and we play well. Then Battier goes down and we start to suck, then Martin goes down and we continue to suck. Until finaly Martin returns and we finish strong. Like I said, a revolving door of players. There was no consistency. How are they supposed to play strong or at least servicable defense when they have different players every single week, amplified by our lack of a real C? We simulataneously changed half our roster while we suffer injuries to all our key defensive players and KMart himself. Do you disagree? Do you think that had nothing to do with our post-trade struggles? What I'm arguing isn't that this team is a contender even without Yao. What I'm saying is that if they were given a full year where they had a training camp and didn't have key players hurt during the entire stretch tey played together they could be a 46-48, maybe even 50 win team with a few breaks. Then who knows what adding Yao would do. Neither am I. He's under contract for a year. I'm saying that playing it out and see if he's back and if making a huge overhaul is even necessary isn't a terrible idea. I dont resist the idea of a big trade. Check my post history. I'm extremely excited about the idea of Bosh or Jefferson coming here. However I'm not going to limit myself to that single view of what could happen. We have a lot of young players under contract for a while, a lot of picks, and a lot of exprings..Yao included. That gives us tons of options going forward.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Hill has done nothing so far. If he were a veteran no one would notice his performance. But because he's a rookie people are excited. Jeffries was a surprise, but he and Scola did not replace what Landry brought. Don't forget that we had the most consistent and productive bench in the league before the trade. That went right out the window. You're going to have to remind me of when we played well. We went 14-14 with Martin, if I recall correctly. We went 11-9 in our last 20, 6-4 in our last 10. Are you thinking of that four game win streak over teams like Washington, New Jersey, and Memphis? I obviously disagree. We're not the only team that made changes at the deadline. Milwaukee made huge changes to the rotation and finished strong. Portland had their own revolving door of injuries, traded multiple players and played strong the whole year. The Rockets have made changes at the deadline nearly every year of the Tmac/Yao era and always played better. Why is this year different? Martin was obviously productive. You said Scola, Hill, and Jeffries replaced what Landry brought. Yet, we didn't get any better. I think you're making excuses for a mediocre team. You're saying we should wait and see what we've got. I'm telling you that there's no point in seeing what we've got, it's not good enough. Morey has to be actively looking for deals, pursuing free agents, and trying to move up the draft. The sooner the better. We need to get better right now. Don't ignore my Celtics example. Before they got KG, I thought they'd be a 1st or 2nd round team. Apparently, they did too. There was no point in seeing what a Pierce, Allen, Jefferson, Rondo, and West team could do. Jefferson was a 21/11 player his first year in Minny. It wouldn't have won Boston the championship. They pulled the trigger on a great player and it's continuing to pay off.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying Hill came in and was as good as Landry. I'm saying that his production, along with what Scola added and the added defense from Jeffries made our front line just as good, if not better than it was pre trade. Put it this way. Pre trade Scolandry was putting up 30 and 13. Post trde Scohillries ( :grin: )was putting up 30 and 17. That's not exactly a deep statistical analysis, but I'm just saying his prodcution was adaquetly filled by the trade. Meanwhile, our 2 and 3 positions got substantially better, injuries to Battier and Ariza not withstanding. That, I don't think, is debateable. And our bench got weaker because it became a cast of D-leaguers....and I wouldn't say it disappeared over the long haul. I haven't checked the numbers, but I know CBud played his best ball at the end of the year, Lowry was Lowry, and Hill and Jeffries were productive. Yeah they sa little, but our starting lineup grew much, much stronger. Postiive shift. Well..Don't leave off Denver Granted the competition in those games wasn't exactly murderers row, but we were playing well then everyone started falling apart. Because the team's wheels fell off. We traded for a player whose known as a poor defender who needs to be covered by the team defense, and then our team defense joined Yao in the jacuzzi. We were extremely productive offensively (you know, better at the one thing Landry gives you) but our defense, for obvious reasons, deteriorated. With Ariza, Lowry, and Battier healthy and in the lineup our team defense would have been far more respectable. Still not great since we didn't have a center, but respectable. Do you deny that we turned over nearly half our roster while we simultaneously lost all our key defensive players for long stretches? This isn't comparable to just incorporating Caron Butler... That's not what I said. I said going forward with what we got isn't a terrible option. That DOESN'T mean that Morey should just kick it and wait for Yao this offseason. He should call every team and explore every trade opportunit that could make our team better in any way. If they can get Bosh without having to give up too much, great. If they can get Big Al, awesome. I'm just saying that our window doesn't close this summer. I'm saying that staying put this offseason if nothing materializes won't kill us. We still have tons of options with all the expirings and young players and picks we got. The Boston thing is neither here nor there. If your point is that you should look to make the team better in any way possible, I agree.
I think the Rockets are fine standing pat and drafting Whiteside at#14, I think we will see a trade but only time will tell.
I would like to see our future with Whiteside, Hill, Ariza, Budinger, and AB. Our future right now with Yao, Scola, Ariza, Martin, and AB. Backed up by Battier, Jeffries, Hill, Budinger, Lowry. We also will have JT, Chuck, and Whiteside. We will get to play the Lakers in the WCF with that team alone.
I would go to war with that roster, but maybe adding another veteran shotblocker would help also. Both Budinger, Hill and JT are coming into their sophmore seasons which you will usually see a dramatic improvement in their games. Whether the rockets get Bosh or not, in the end their future success all hinges on a 7'6 players big foot.
I would blame it on the offseason. Thing is, while the offseason produces a spike in numbers, the sad truth is that stupid threads, much like the poor, are always with us.
