Its about as simple as 3>2. You cant trade baskets with good 3 point shooting teams that shoot well from that range and push pace while dumping it into the post on lengthy possessions. The numbers catch up to you. Similarly if you do fall behind having good 3 point shooters AND good defense are your only shot of getting back into games nowadays.
You are the purist here. When you talk about Sengun you constantly mention baby hooks, post-centric play, post-up play. You can’t imagine anything other than centers of the past. People don’t see high value in Sengun because of those. It is the things he can do in addition to them. You can’t understand the difference between getting extra playmaking from your center and a post-centric offense. Getting playmaking from your center is the same philosophy as a 5 out system or combo guard systems, totally in line with modern basketball. the game has evolved and finishers are very skilled and plenty. The number of players scoring 30+ and 20+ are at a all time high. The systems and players to create advantages for the finishers are harder to find and just as important as the finishers. They are not support players, so again you are the purist here. You repeatedly talk about offense, how post up is dead, how 3 pt is todays game, how these centers do not match the modern offense and they are support players. In reality Denver and kings have the top two offenses in the league despite not having the best rosters. Because having a player with good post up skills, with gravity and good passing does not contradict with the 3 pt game, it supports it. The problem with those teams is their rosters are not strong enough and defensive problems if anything.
If you shoot 60 % on 2-point shots, that's as good as 40 % on 3-point shots. Ideally, you do both. Both Jokic and Alpi are capable of shooting 60 % on 2-point shots, and not on low volume. Now let's get Bari and Green and the others up to 40 % on threes. Then we're talking.
Thats cool and all until you face a team that is near the top of the league in pace that is also a capable 3 pt shooting team that can defend. Dumping it into the post is a time consuming process especially for players and teams who are not used to that style of play. We dont have any guys who even know the concept of entry passing! Thats how outdated that philosophy is. Next time you get a chance go watch some Jr High or High School basketball and take note of the style that is being taught to these kids at an early age. It probably differs greatly from how Europeans are taught, but thats where the stalemate occurs. All we can take is the given of how teams have won championships recently vs waiting on the past to catch up to the future.
Im able to conform and adapt without the rigidity of guys like you who have attached themselves to an outdated archetype because it aligns with your favorite player. All you are saying is mumbo jumbo. 3&D wins. MIL/BOS/76ers are the highest offensive rated teams - with Sac/Denver falling behind them. They also all happen to be in the top 10 in 3pt shooting and team defense - coincidence? No. Will any of these teams that spotlight a post player be able to win the championship this year? Maybe - and it would put an end to the decade of perimeter players dominating that landscape.
Funny that you mention it; I recently watched my first every High School basketball match. Really enjoyed it. (Two Florida High Schools playing against each other; unfortunately, our team lost by 1 point! My daughter's school has a player in the NBA, not a star though.) I'll be attending a reception with Dusty May next week. Looking forward to that. As to the bolded part - I'd argue that that's more on those guys, and it should be possible to teach them. I think we should combine different approaches and strengths. Makes it harder to defend us, and makes it more entertaining to watch. Hopefully, the new coach can do that. By the way, enjoying this discussion. Thank you.
Just like the false 'win a championship' argument, which totally ignores the total strength of the rosters and the disparity between the number of teams with each construction, in measuring offense you use team ratings, which paints a false picture. Look at the players with best offensive ratings: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=GP*GE*41:MIN*GE*20&dir=A&sort=OFF_RATING First 4 are Denver, second 4 are Sacramento. So much Jokic can do when he is not on the court. This actually shows that the reason why Denver is not successful is mainly due to strength of roster, not because Jokic dominant system is bad. You are the one that attached yourself against an archetype and you can't see what is developing is not even the archetype you are arguing against. And you are trying to support it with incorrect statistical arguments.
So what you are telling me is that once Denver was able to add better support players to Jokic' abilities the team became better. Fascinating. Im avoiding statistics on purpose and trying to boil it down to a laymans perspective, but that apparently is not enough. 3&D wins. Its that simple. You playing word salads wont discredit that fact.
Again, you have a very limited understanding. The issue is not whether 3&D wins or not. 3&D, wings who can shoot and defend are an integral part of the game that cannot go back. You probably have not noticed, but those alone were extremely valuable 5 years ago and now are insufficient now to make you very valuable. You need to put the ball on the floor and be able to move the ball now, because the defenses have evolved. So we are not discussing 3 and D but rather what else we can do to increase the efficiency of the offense. And as the numbers support, playmaking center is a nice addition to the reportoire to do that. But you are stuck in the dichotomy of the past and you are arguing like someone in 2013 vs somebody who thinks we should go back to 2000.
Let me ask you this --- how many viable post players are in the NBA today? Why is that number so low? If Sengun was a dynamic guard with limitless range and a clamp God would you still pine for post play?
Sengun is not a post player. He is very good in the post but he doesn't live in the post and doesn't need to. He posts up to score sometimes, but also to create other things most of the time. You are imagining a post-player that is only useful when he gets the ball in the post and whose only ability is to finish with a post-up shot. You are discussing this type of ancient only-post-players because you can't see the other things he offers/can offer, to the point that you(maybe not you, but a common sentiment in anti Sengun camp) would prefer a scrub like Bruno over Sengun. If Sengun was a dynamic guard and we had the opportunity to get a center like Sengun, I would be all over him. Because that player would make the team and Sengun better.
What? Cmon man. Im trying real hard to stay civil with you guys, but dont gaslight me. Here are the post up leaders in the NBA: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up Plenty of awesome players on that top 10 which includes Sengun. How many of those guys have a ring? TWO! Alpies average distance of shot this year was SIX FEET! He's a great and willing passer - fantastic! Shall we talk about his defense? Nah because Im not overly concerned with him individually as you guys are. I want the HOUSTON ROCKETS to win another championship. If Sengun is a big part of that or not I really dont care. THAT is the bottom line.
You gotta stop the 'how many of those guys have a ring?' argument. Look at the top rebounders, and see that one or two have a ring. What is your conclusion? Rebounding doesn't win you titles. Do it with offensive rating, and even with scoring. It is just a meaningless argument. The post-up leaders list you provide already shows you are living in the past. Sengun has 2.2 fga(jokic 3.7, embiid 3) from the post per game. And that's with a coach that did not know how to use him elsewhere. It is a sorted list, so some players(particularly centers!!!) will have more attempts but the absolute number is very little. Compare it to (even as close as) 15-16 and you'll see many players with more than 4 attempts. The game has evolved. Even a player like Sengun has very few post-up fga. He is living near the rim though. That's very different than having only a post-up game. He has a face-up game, can go past his guys, can fake his guys out of their position etc. We'll see what he adds to that. But your premise that he is post-up player similar to post-up players is plain wrong.
