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Alperen Sengun is the Rockets' franchise player

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by AroundTheWorld, Jan 17, 2023.

  1. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    On December 15, 2016, the Denver Nuggets decided to start Nikola Jokic and bench Jusuf Nurkic (a pretty good player).

    They traded Nurkic in February 2017.

    They made a conscious decision to make Jokic their franchise player.

    And I don't think they have regretted it since, although they have not won a championship yet. It was the right call.

    Tonight is the night the Rockets' front office and coaching staff needs to finally understand for sure that it's time to make that call. (Many of us have seen it after the first few times Sengun got minutes and touches, but it seems that at least our coaching staff needed more convincing, and maybe still doesn't fully understand it.)

    Alperen Sengun is not only the Rockets' best player - by far - he is the player the Rockets must build around.

    There is no other "head honcho".

    A team needs a clear pecking order.

    Sengun is on track to becoming the next great center, and second best center in Houston Rockets history.

    We have great players to build around Sengun - Jabari, Jalen, Tari as part of the core, and also KMJ, Garuba, Tate, TyTy as part of the extended core/complementary pieces. (Whether KPJ fits is a big question mark, to say the least - and it doesn't seem Silas has even been seeing Sengun's full potential, since he has been prioritizing lesser players the entire time - so I have strong doubts that these two should stay.)

    And we will hopefully have the opportunity to add another great player through the draft (whomever we add, they will not be quite as good as Sengun, including Wemby and Scoot), and a good free agent or two.

    But whomever we add - if the Rockets want to become relevant again - Alperen Sengun will be the centerpiece and our franchise player.

    Alperen Sengun. Always.
     
  2. YaoMac09

    YaoMac09 Member

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    This is another Yao vs Francis & Mobley moment. Time to move away from trigger happy, ball dominant guards and build around the future best C in the league.
     
  3. arabrocket

    arabrocket Member

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    I agree with this %100 he has the highest iq on the roster too.
     
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  4. groovemachine

    groovemachine Member

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    Tonight Sengun showed on the big stage he could be the next great center to continue Houston’s Legacy of Bigs. To not run the offense through Sengun is malpractice at this point, he makes everyone better.
     
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  5. arno_ed

    arno_ed Contributing Member

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    I believe that Wembi would be the ideal player next to Sengun. On offense he can space the floor and the big to big passes will be amazing. On defense he can weakside shotblock, and Sengun can play the stronger centers (especially when he puts on a bit more muscle). Smith could move to the three which might be his natural position anyway.

    I totally agree with everything you said SJC.
     
  6. Ankara1923

    Ankara1923 Member

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    I believe that Tari/Bari/JGreen are as important as Alpi for the ring.

    Instead of building around I would certainly ask to the other players to be being around of Sengun. Most of the times other players hiding themselves behind of opps players when Sengun tries to pass them.Having just 6 assists in a 130+ game is unacceptable for Alpi (I know Josh and the others missed simple scoring opportunites but 6 still too low number). If there were nearby players he could easily get the minimum acceptable number of 8, likely more.

    KJM and a kind of Tate know how to cut but the others generally have no idea. Train them how to cut and get passes from Sengun.

    Sengun might be "Primus Inter Pares-The first within equals" but not emperor, Please do not convert him to another spoiled basketball player.

    Team first.Always.

    Meanwhile Gabriel is 6'9, Bryant is 6'10 and Alpi certainly quite taller than both. Someone should stop "Alpi is 6'9" nonsense.
     
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  7. Ankara1923

    Ankara1923 Member

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    Good analysis Mr.Johann Neskeens.Thanks
     
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  8. ExTxGS

    ExTxGS Member

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  9. gumbleton3

    gumbleton3 Member

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    Safe to say it certainly ain't Green.
     
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  10. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Not sure why fans keep comparing Sengun to Jokic. Two completely different players. In my opinion Sengun is a conundrum as he does some good things on offense but hurts this team on the defensive end. Sengun also doesn’t stretch defenses like Jokic. Jokic can shoot a mid range or 3 ball. Jokic has much better vision with cross court passes or setting up shooters. Sengun has more gimmick and flashy passes and commits a lot of silly unnecessary turnovers. But he can still pass on the high post to cutters and back doors and he has a decent low post game. On the defensive end it’s no secret he is a Liability and as much as I like his offense. He can’t guard bigs and even guys like Poetl and Zach Collins dominate him in the low post. We saw how he can’t handle the better bigs in the league like Sabonis or Nurkic or Valencunis one on one in the low post while Bruno or Sengun turns away some of these guys. His help defense is weak as well often coming too late and he commits a lot of fouls since players don’t respect his post presence and drive on him. At least Jokic has length and taller than Sengun making it more difficult on opponents driving. He also doesn’t play the high screen and roll well since he can’t go vertical. These are his limitations unfortunately. Thats why we need victor
     
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  11. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    There’s a lot of reasons why two things can be true at the same time:

    A. Fans and media commentators to be super excited to love watching and rooting for a throwback offensively creative skilled young big man like Sengun. He does all the things that we nostalgically remember about the game when bigs were the primary focus and the game allowed them to cook.

    B. GM’s and coaches to rather trade a player like Sengun in favor of a Capela type of rim running/defender center who will suck in the defense as a lob threat in the pick and roll which then opens up 3’s which is basically all the modern nba is nowadays and have that big be switchable on D.

    I say this to say two things. Modern NBA teams and their coaches imo are a bit lazy and lack the will to play a different style than every other team. There’s also the realization that Sengun (at least right now) likely scares the Rockets and would other teams as well in what they see as defensive weaknesses. Mainly, ability to switch if he’s not big enough to dominate the paint… like Jokic, or Embiid.

    I have little faith in this team from a front office and coaching perspective to feel the same way as the OP. I don’t necessarily think the Rockets are right to be scared to build around Sengun but I think I know now why. I think Clutch even have these same observations in his pre draft pod with Bima about Sengun even before he stepped on the court.

    The question isn’t about Senguns talent… the guy is as skilled at this age as any big we’ve seen in a decade. The question is about the modern NBA and the incentive structure to build with a guard centric PNR kick and shoot D’Antoni style offense, vs truly building pieces around a slow it down and let the big man work style of offense… especially when that big man doesn’t justify the slow pace on the other side when you can’t slow down the other teams pace on D. You’d have to find some very specific defensive minded guards and wings to compensate style of play, and I don’t know if a GM like Stone months or a year from now will feel confident enough in his ability to get all the players he needs to fit a Sengun centric team. I think he’s much more likely to take the easy road to 45 wins and trade Sengun in the next 2 years.

    Just being honest here. I love watching Sengun but you just gotta be real about the modern NBA and the incentive structure of the front office and coaches to take the fast track road.
     
  12. maypk

    maypk Member

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    It's not Sengun that is being compared to Jokic, it's Sengun's potential. I thought it's so obvious.
     
  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    I am not surprised.

    Euros are taking the leagues by storm.

    It is just the way fundamentals are taught to talented players at a young age.

    Of course there are more role players but sometimes you find a gem here and there.
     
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  14. ExTxGS

    ExTxGS Member

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    Hey guys. I understand u have question marks on Sengun's defense. Here are questions...
    -How was Jokic's defense when he was 20?
    -Do u think Doncic has a good defence?

    My answers:
    -Jokic was not good in defense when he was 20. But learned to stand on right position, and his size got bigger. Now he is an average defender. Why not Alpi?
    -No. But he is incredible on offense. So other players cover up his weekness. His offense benefits is much more than his defense weekneses. Why not Alpi?
     
    #14 ExTxGS, Jan 17, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
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  15. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Jokic and Embiid are both well above 7 feet tall and are big enough to just physically take up enough space to clog the paint and slow down the pace of the other team. So we have to slow our pace on offense but the other team (at the moment at least) can still play at a fast pace on offense.

    Sengun’s size is the primary question mark in regards to a GM deciding to build around him as a starting 5 and focal point of the offense. He’s not athletic enough to switch like Draymond so you can have a switch everything defense like most teams now run, and he’s not big enough to clog the paint.

    The best hope for Sengun’s improvement to justify would be if he works his tail off in the off-season to get more athletic to be able to guard the perimeter.

    Of course alot of it is coaching and holding the perimeter guards more accountable but a GM is going to still look at the situation and assume that they’ll be having to likely live with some poor perimeter D regardless since you have to assume you’ll be taking the bad with the good with modern nba playmakers like Harden, Trey Young, Kyrie, etc.

    So yeah Sengun can improve but I don’t believe in his ability to come back in the off-season 4 inches taller with a longer wing span or to go home this summer and come back at athletic as Draymond. I hope he can but it’ll be tough for him and I have doubts that modern nba GM’s and coaches to be willing to take a risk vs opting for a safer bet guard centric style of play.
     
  16. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    He has been compared and is compared to Jokic here. But they’re not the same player so why keep comparing them or put them in the same conversation?

    Why are people so high on him? Sengun can’t shoot. That’s not part of his game. So for a low post player that can’t shoot there’s limitations to his game since he can’t pick and pop or play stretch 5. But then what do you do with a low post guy that can’t shoot? If you play heavy high screen and rolls he can’t jump and not good at deep rolls. He can get short rolls and dribble his way to the basket which he’s good at but he’s not a deep roll threat. He can’t shoot so for all the high post action he still needs the ball in low post or an angle where he can drive. This is the Sengun conundrum. It’s frustrating because he has some tools and skills but ultimately hurts this team especially on the defensive side. The org has tried to fit him in and his playing time has been cut into since he can’t defend. That’s just the ugly truth. Unfortunately.
     
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  17. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    I agree you would need some serious two way players that could guard the perimeter.

    Green and KPJ probably not really cutting it.

    I would still wait until I know what the new coach would run.......
     
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  18. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    He showed he could shoot a one handed shot to the basket.

    The Rockets need proper coaches and that includes a premium shooting coach.

    Lucas just filling in for one.
     
  19. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    I agree to an extent and see what you’re saying but it’s not about the “modern NBA”. Bigs job is to guard the paint period and Im sorry but Sengun doesn’t guard the paint. He doesn’t play help defense either. It’s pretty simple. Despite his flashes on offense he is a liability in a very important area where he needs to be good at. Every good team in the NBA has a defensive big that deters guards and players driving in the paint. Jokic may be the weakest defender here but he does have length and size which still deters players more than Sengun. I think Sengun can improve his defense and not use his body too much on one ones but he will never be a defensive big and not being a stretch big compounds his issues.
     
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  20. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Im talking about outside the paint bro. Long Mid range, turnarounds and threes. He doesn’t stretch defenses there. Jokic and Embiid does this. He is a tough player to start and you wanna root for him but like KPJ it isn’t working.
     

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