I agree he won't become as good as Horford. He can improve and become an average defender at a consistent level.
You always bring up your background with athletes, which - good! (Seriously, not being insulting.) I would ultimately find it more persuasive if either you were working with the player yourself or if your assessment were at all consistent with the people with similar skill sets/toolboxes who are nonetheless much closer to NBA scouting and performance than your are. People get paid a ton of money to be NBA scouts and collect advanced data in NBA FO and the consensus by those people is near uniformly against your assessment.
I’m still not seeing where Horford is some elite level defender lol. Horford is solid all around defender who is around a 3 DWS in average. Also, you know who is literally faster and quicker than Horford? Drew Timme
No! Your are not remembering Horford correctly. This is LITERALLY his NBAdraft.net scouting report: Strengths: Runs extremely well, able to beat most forwards down the court Is blessed with an NBA ready body and good strength Defensively Horford is a very strong post defender able to use his body strength to disrupt opposing players from setting up Solid shot blocker thanks to his timing and great anticipation skills Attacks the basket with aggression and power A surprising ball handler and passer for his size This enables him to pass out of double teams with relative ease Is physical in the low post and does a good job of drawling fouls from opposing defenders Usually he is able to use his upper body strength and finish after contact Really makes a big impact on the glass where he uses his body strength to box out Has proven to be a very coachable player with a solid work ethic Possesses a calm presence, doesnt let his emotions get the best of him Shows good court awareness, rarely does he try moves that are beyond his skill level Has shown the ability to hit the 12-15 foot jumper from mid-range Maintains good body control and balance absorbing contact well from opposing post defenders Rarely bobbles or fails to catch passes thrown into the post thanks to his soft hands... Long and athletic bigman … Long arms and broad shoulders make him a great rebounder and an imposing defender … Very active body … Has a huge frame with outstanding wingspan … A physical specimen type … Has nice touch inside … Hard working kid, who really wants to improve … Very coachable … Excels in the classroom … Very mobile, can get out on the break very well for a 6-9 player … Showing improvement on a daily basis … Really has come a long way since arriving at Florida, and has already cracked the starting lineup … Very even keeled, strong mentally *******
You do realize athletic testing is different than scouting right? When you study biomechanics of elite athletes to gain better and more efficient performance, you tend to know who can move well and who can’t. There is a bias in scouts, specifically older scouts. White/Asian/light skinned athletes have to be Uber elite to be considered great athletes. Testing tells you what type of athletes they’re capable of being, in game might not always match the testing. Horford is in no way an elite athlete or even good by NBA standards, outside of a good standing vert. He’s a high IQ smart and physical defender. Which is what Alp can be.
Except his testing is below average. Scouting sees what it wants to see. Horford is an average to solid athlete depending on what you’re looking at. Hustle, IQ, and strong fundamentally. Nothing in that scouting report actually matches his testing. He’s 6’9 in shoes with a 7’1 wingspan. 3/4 sprint is solid for a PF, lane agility was poor. This was also 14 years ago
I’m not even trying to bash Horford, he’s been one of my favorite players since Florida days. But to claim he’s some type of elite defender is inaccurate, he’s a very good defender, Alp would top out at his level and only get there by developing strength and strong fundamentals defensively. He has the athleticism and length to be a solid defender, but he won’t be a world beater there. He’s not that type of athlete and not super long. Horford turning back the clock this season has been special.
I will say Horford is a better flat footed jumper, he has some explosion off of no run up. Even in his later years
You did this same thing on the other thread where you sort of try to position the debate as though I've said so-and-so is elite (Banchero, Horford). I never said Banchero was an elite defender, and I certainly didn't say Horford was either. I said that in his past he was a very good and valued one (well above average!), which is true. I've not once used the word elite to describe Horford's defense yet you keep straw-manning that. I mean this quite literally. If you control+f on "elite" you are the only person using that term, except when I discuss the fact that you are always using it.
You said extremely high end. Horford has never been extremely high end in any season by any metric. He’s a very good all around defender when you add all the parts. Elite, great, good athleticism in NBA standards are very real. Horford is not any of those. Neither is Sengun. Neither is Paolo. They don’t rely on athleticism, they rely on skill and solid athleticism with better coordination than most.
Also, you keep erroneously claiming Alp is a poor athlete. Yes, I’m going to say something about it because it’s not true. You may not like him, that’s fine. His play style doesn’t fit todays game all the way, but he’s got game and he had some amazing defensive plays this season. Consistency will determine if he’s a good defender
I love Alp! Love! I think his offensive genius is real and his rim protection/timing is underrated, and he's therefore a fascinating case study in whether you can be on the court in the end of meaningful playoff games in the modern NBA. The reason I think that's a legitimate question is because unlike you I think the issues with his ability to guard bigger 5s or anybody on the perimeter are very real. This mostly came about organically because I felt like people were suggesting that we pass on BPA (paolo) because of fit issues, and I think we have to be clear eyed about what Alp's limitations are if that's the type of thing you're urging. That's all. But seriously, I love Alp.
As much as I want Chet and Jabari for this team, if neither are there and the pick is Paolo, I’m going to be excited. He’s talented. I do think he and Alp are a bit redundant, but I’m not opposed to two players like that. I think there’s enough variance and some positional flexibility to play with each other. The only part I disagree with is the trade Alp for Paolo, I don’t think that’s right. Alp has an enormous upside imo, he may have more to go than Paolo does but it’s still high.
thank you man, its amazing how Silas fooled so many guys who consider themselves smart bb wise...these guys run into trouble as soon as they need to use a little of context or circumstances into their bb thinking...
Sengun defensive slander is not quite accurate. Sengun has really active hands hence his above average ability to get steals & deflections. I would not be surprised if Sengun's STOCKS (steals & blocks) is also average to above average due to his high effort and IQ.
Look where Sengun is in rim protection. Some familiar faces just above and below. He is solid 3rd tier shot blocker even without elite length or verticality.
