glynch Once again you make an extremely incredible statement: <b>"Or why else would he try to scare the American people and make this more of a big deal than it really is?" </b> You don't think this is a really, really big deal? Do you think it will go away if the U.S. and the world ignores it? It's one thing to disagree with the Viet Nam war and not fulfill your duty as a citizen, but it's an entirely different thing when we are attacked, YES - ATTACKED, on our own soil. We were attacked by an entity that doesn't want to negotiate. We were attacked by an entity who has publically stated that he has no problems with killing women and children. We were attacked by an entity that considers it martyrdom to commit suicide for their cause. Get it through your head - this is a really, really, really big deal.
jerry falwell is not a politician -- he's a media w**** who practices hate only 1 or 2 degrees removed from the same hatred that fueled the terrorists. as for you comments, re: bush -- only the truly cynical would view this as the start of a re-election campaign. gw need only to ask his father if decisively winning a war is the key to a second term. i think he knows better. as for fanning flames of hatred, i can't recall bush referring to the attackers as anything but "terrorists." if you have evidence of him describing them as anything beyond that, please post. you have to remember, bush is not merely placating the american people, but the international coalition as well -- his words have been carefully chosen (ie notice how he didn't mention communisim when he rattled off all the "isms" america has defeated in the past???) because a lot of people with vested interest are watching his every move. he hasn't been perfect, but his effort has been admirable.
ric: "jerry falwell is not a politician -- he's a media w**** who practices hate only 1 or 2 degrees removed from the same hatred that fueled the terrorists." RR: Oh, really! Can we look for Falwell to crash a bus-full of tanked up Episcopalians on their way to a football game into a mosque... or something along that order?
reread what i posted, please, before this goes any further. i did not reference the act itself, but the motivation behind it -- they both use religious writings as a means to hate and discriminate. one chooses to act on that hatred, the other to use those acts as a means to push his agenda.
No, I think that's what he meant by saying Falwell was <B>1 or 2 degrees removed</B> from the terrorists. Also, are you now saying that firebombing a mosque is as bad as what these terrorists did? Or are you saying that it's not as bad as driving a bus through it?
It is my opinion that to say that Falwell's motivation is 1 or 2 degrees from the murderous hate of the Bin Laden's devotees is a ludicrous and shameful comparison. It is so silly that I was trying to make FUN of it; I guess I'll go back to comedy writing school! Whether you agree with his views or not, it is absurd to make a statement comparing Falwell in likeness to Bin Laden. How many lives have Falwell's followers taken? That's what you're saying. His life's work is devoted to saving souls. How many murders has his congregation committed? That's what you're saying. My assertion is that Falwell is 180 degrees removed from Bin Laden and I think that the actual historical record verifies that. Falwell is probably one of the few men in America who has actually prayed for Bin Laden. I can't bring myself to do it.....
I thought you just turned 24 or 25....Apparently, you still haven't grown up. really nice. I thought you were a better poster than this.
I've haven't grown up any more than a 30-something father who likes to call people cowards. I'd just love to see him call Ali a coward for not going to Vietnam.
don't necessarily diagree. fortunately, i never said that. the basis for the hatred and acting on said hatred are not mutually exclusive. both use religion to openly practice hatred. how they act upon said hatred is irrelevent to this specific topic. see if they're offering a common sense course, too. no, that's what you're saying i'm saying. i've never compared falwell to bin laden. glynch believes politicians are using the attacks as a means to push their own agendas. he offered as evidence jerry falwell. i merely pointed out two crucial holes in his post:1) falwell isn't a politician; 2) falwell is a hot-button extremist who uses any situation that allows him to further spread his agenda, an agenda, btw, founded on religious beliefs. now, who else do we know that's currently pushing a religious-based agenda upon us....? no, again, that's what you're saying. and i doubt falwell's prayed for bin laden since he doesn't think laden's directly responsible for the attacks. maybe you meant he's prayed for gays and abortionists? give me a break -- the guy is S-C-U-M.
RM95, what conclusion do you think that people reach when Ric characterizes Falwell as someone who "practices hate only 1 or 2 degrees removed from the same hatred that fueled the terrorists." Characterizing one or two degrees "removed" is VERY SLIGHT and is meant to convey approximate identity NOT distinction. Characterizing 180 degrees "removed" would indicate a polar difference. You and he have a right to your opinion, but I have the right to RESPONSIBLY challenge it and anyone who reads this has the opportunity to think about it. What were the actions of Bin Laden's terrorists? And which actions of Falwell's followers are comparable? Even remotely? If this question can't be answered, the assertions about Falwell are just plain inflammatory and reckless.
I'd hope intelligent people would reach the same conclusion that I did. I didn't read that and think that Ric thought that Falwell was as bad as Bin Laden. I read that and thought that Ric thought that Bin Laden was fueled by hate, just Falwell is fueled by hate, just not to the same extreme. The operative word is not fueled, it's removed. That shows that he doesn't think Falwell is as bad as Bin Laden...unless he thinks he's worse.
You're not getting it, he's not talking about actions. He's talking about feelings. What he meant by his statement is that the two may have similar types of hate, but they way they express that hate is obviously different.
Okay, we have evidence of Bin Laden's hate. Where is the evidence of Falwell's hate? Falwell prays for souls-- even the souls of his enemies. What does Bin Laden propose to do with the souls of his enemy? Predicting (not condemning) that certain people are headed for hell because of what he considers an immoral lifestyle is not hateful. Hate is a very extreme word. How about disapproval?
except fuel in this case relates to the hatred, not the action -- his religious beliefs "fueled" his hatred. their actions are not relevant to my point. the action is what separates the two by a degree or more. but they're both coming from the same place. as for people reaching conclusions from my posts... let me ask you: what conclusion do people reach when falwell blames gays and abortionists for the attacks? RR, this may come as a surpirse to you, but falwell has a much larger following than me. i know, i know... hard to believe. he used the death of 6,000+ people to push his anti-ACLU agenda -- he attempted to create a backlash, asking, in no uncertain terms, that our anger and blame, at least some of it, be saved for the "real" sinners. it was deplorable. he's deplorable.
In a 360 degree circle, how do you think that citing someone as only 1 or 2 degrees different sufficiently sets apart a terrorist from an evangelist? That is a joke. That is a reckless characterization. I don't think you know how powerful a word "hate" is? People who are that close on the "hate-meter" would choose similar"methods" to "push their agendas on us." Bin Laden chooses DEATH AND DESTRUCTION; Falwell chooses preaching and teaching. If they are both as seething with hate as you would wish to say they are, Falwell COULDNOT choose peacful methods of promoting his agenda. I'll pay your way into Common Sense 101!!
how does blaming the death of 6,000+ people on gays and abortionists breed anything but contempt for the groups in question? oh, i know, falwell will graciously pray for them. meanwhile, abortion clinics are being bombed, doctors and homosexuals are being killed... are you under the impression these acts don't spring from the same philosophy falwell's preaching? if not, please tell me what's fueling the pro-life and anti-gay movements...
Richrocket, even though Falwell pushes your political agenda give him up. Even Rush Limbaugh has realized he has hurt his usefulness to the cause of getting people making $15 an hr less to vote for the party of the wealthy the, the GOP.
Ric: "how does blaming the death of 6,000+ people on gays and abortionists breed anything but contempt for the groups in question? oh, i know, falwell will graciously pray for them." RR: You are hammering the man for a statement that he retracted more than a week ago, nevertheless it doesn't have to breed "contempt." There are other options. Ric: "meanwhile, abortion clinics are being bombed, doctors and homosexuals are being killed... are you under the impression these acts don't spring from the same philosophy falwell's preaching?" RR: So, do the acts of Bin Laden's group "spring from" ALL Muslim preaching, too? That would offend them. Ric: "if not, please tell me what's fueling the pro-life and anti-gay movements..." RR: I'm sure many things are "fueling" those movements so it is hard to answer. I'll answer for myself: my support of the pro-life POV is the knowledge that that "thing" growing in the womb, IF PROTECTED, will turn out a human being and cannot turn out to be anything else. As for anti-gay, I do think that being gay is not within the natural order of things but there are probably things about each of us that is not within the natural order. I really don't see what the fuss is about gay marriage. I know many childless married couples-- so the are "effectively" gay when it comes to growing the society. There goes that pro-heterosexual argument!
