Haley's best years were with the Niners. For a while he was the best pass rusher in the game, but it was too brief. He had sustained excellence, but limited dominance. Richard Dent was similar, although not as good. Manley was another like this. But Haley was never as good as Smith or White at their best, and his career wasn't as good, so I don't see how he'd make this list. He does sort of have a Robert Horry place in history though, going from one great team to another, and winning a bunch of titles along the way.
I dunno MacBeth I think at his best he was better pass-rusher than Bruce Smith (but not as good as Reggie White). But I didn't have him on my list because Bruce did it for so much longer and Haley was undersized for a DE (although he did play some LB at some points). I know Haley was even a force in Dallas until his back got to him. Didn't he try a comebacmk with SF a few years after that?
Moe nailed it with John Mackey (TE) and Larry Csonka(FB). Also Bob Lilly and Randy White ("Manster") should be on any All-Time NFL Team. QB- Montana/Unitas RB- Jim Brown/OJ Simpson/Earl Campbell FB- Csonka/Bleier WR- Rice/Swann/Ellard/Carter/Lofton TE- Mackey/Winslow G- Hannah/Little T- Munoz/McKenzie C- Mike Webster/ Jim Otto DE- Deacon Jones/White DT- Bob Lilly/ Randy White LB- Butkus/Taylor/Lambert CB- Blount/Woodson S- Lott/ Wilson
You guys should read Greg Easterbrook's TMQ column on Bruce Smith and Reggie White. He wrote it last year, I'm not about to look it up, and he made a pretty good argument for Smith being the best. Clearly, if he breaks the record, he's the best Defensive End of the two. Reggie White played some of his prime seasons on one of the best defenses in NFL history in Philly, on a defensive line that was absolutely loaded. He played End in the 4-3, being able to concentrate on pass rushing. Bruce Smith played on a good defense, but played in the 3-4, where his primary job was run defense. The fact that he is even close to record if remarkable.
What "record" are you refering to? The sack record? They didn't start keeping that stat until the 70's. Deacon Jones would be the all-time leader.
Before the Mccaffrey and Rod Smith's came around, Elway's wrs had names like Orson Mobley, Clarence Kay, Vance Johnson, Mike Jackson, Ricky Nattiel. Not quite Brent Jones, Wes Walls, Rice, Taylor, and Roger Craig is it?
The three Amigos were all 5'11" or under. I think they all flamed out after that super bowl as well. Also, Elway played in colder weather and he was coached by a then conservative Dan Reeves. Reeves fired Shanahan because he thought Elway and Mike were conspiring against him. Give Elway the west coast offense his entire life, and his numbers would be close to Joe's. It's a toss up either way. Elway was at times, the reckless physical stud. But, he's made some throws that only Favre could make. Joe was, well, he was Joe Cool. Emmitt Smith is the most overrated RB ever. He had some huge holes to run through. Sanders would have averaged 5 ypc in Dallas.
1) At the time the Three Amigos were not considered small; remember that Al Toon was a giant at 6-4, and Rice was considered huge, at 6'2". And one of them, Johnson I think, was 6 feet. And it was Elway who flamed out in the Super Bowl against Montana...didn't he throw like 4 picks? 5? Can't remember. 2) Yeah, Elway played in colder weather...but Montana played in the NFC...in the 80s...That was at a time when the NFC fielded several of the greatest defenses ever; The all around Redskins, LT's Giants, Buddy Ryan's Eagles, Da Bears, the Saints killer lb corps, etc. etc. And due to the fact that the Niners averaged 12 wins a year and never had less than 10 they always faced these teams...year in and year out. I'd say that had more effect than the weather. 3) Agreed about coaching, but on the other hand part of the reason that Elway isn't Montana is because of the mistakes he was prone to for most of his early career...and a conservative coach would have lessened that, not increased it. What made Montana so amazing was the numbers he'd put up with so few mistakes. 4) Totally agree that Elway had a stronger arm...hell, I think he's physically the proto-quarterback. But Montana delivered the ball better, was probably the most accurate passer ever, not just in terms of %, but in terms of dropping balls over defenders, hitting runners in stride so they don't have to gear down and up, and beyond that he saw the field better than anyone ever, like a Gretzky, he seemed to see things in slow motion. Most qb's have 2 or 3 options on a play, Montana routinely went 4 or 5 deep on reads, which is why the greatest qb guru ever, Bill Walsh, says he is hands down the best ever. On that Super Bowl pass to Taylor, the famous one, Taylor was his 4th option. The thing that Montana did was that he made it all seem so easy. No qb has ever thrown on the run like he did...not as far as athletic strength; Favre and Elway were better...and not pure running, Young was much better...but when you watch Montana run with the ball, he's reading the whole field all the time, waiting for a man to beak open before it happens, and delivering the ball so that it gets there as the man does. Physical specimens like Elway could never do stuff like that. If being a quarterback was just having the strongest arm, Marino, Elway, and Jay Schroeder would be the best...but it's way more than that, and on top of it Montana threw as beautiful a ball as you'll ever see; tight spirals and right on the money. Simply the best.
You've got to consider Bradshaw in these qb arguments. He comes across as not very bright, but once he matured as a quarterback, he had it all. Big, strong, cannon for an arm, accurate, fearless and won the rings.
I was going to put him in my list with Montana and Unitas, and still don't know why I didn't. He was a GREAT QB with lots of weapons. I despised those Steeler teams because they were always in the way of the Oilers going to the Super Bowl
The nfc was the stronger conference, right? Montana and co. were more battle tested and he probably played with a better defense, right? Montana probably had more talented player at nearly every position, no? I'll take Bill Walsh over Reeves any day. The west coast offense wasn't explosive. It was ahead of it's time and is still prominent today. If run correctly (which Joe Cool did), it is a very efficient offense, not necessarily an explosive one where Elway could have made mistakes. It's a controlled passing game. Romonawski said if Elway had played in the west coast offense, he'd set all of the records. Now, part of Elway's problems were his own fault. He was hard headed and I think he hated Reeves. He seemed to win inspite of Reeves. Elway did flame out in super bowls. But he didn't come in with the same arsenal. Sounds like your celebrating Elway's failures. I don't look at it that way. I'm glad they both entertained us for so many years.
I'm only 31,so my team does'nt go back real far.... QB D Marino/R Cunningham/B Favre RB W Payton/E Dickerson/M Faulk FB Keith Byars [I don't care about blocking,just catching passes] TE K Jackson/K Winslow WR J Rice/J Lofton/R Moss T E Williams/A Munoz G J Hannah/L Allen C M Webster DE R White/R Dent DT Randy White/J Green OLB L Taylor/J Ham/S Joyner ILB J Lambert/M Singltary CB D Sanders/E Allen S R Lott/R Woodson K M Anderson P R Guy On a side note,where's a good sight to get stats on retired+current NFL players.
Ya right, and he has the records and the rings to prove it. Oh, and there was something else...Emmitt didnt quit on his team, his fans and his city during the twilight of his career. Sanders was a great back, but years from now the record books will show that Emmit was the best. He has a fist-full of jewelry, and a book-full of records. What does Barry have? Nothing, he quit. Well, I take that back, he does have a couple million heartbroken folks in Detroit. That probably counts for something.
Cowboys are my favorite team. But, I'm telling you, you could have stuck Corey Dillon or Ricky Watters behind that line and the results would have been the same.
I've heard that argument before, but I dont buy it. The fact of the matter is that Emmitt was there, Emmitt piled up the stats, Emmitt won the rings. I agree, other backs could have been great, but Emmitt was great. OK, I am biased, but I dont understand why people hate on Emmitt so much. I don’t hear anyone hating on Jerry Rice, even though he played with 2 HOF’ers in Steve Young and Joe Montana. Emmitt has racked up a career that will not be touched any time soon. Like I said, he has the rings and he has the records, what else is there? /that is all
