I think the best way to play this out is to act as if Roger isnt coming back. Make the necessary changes to account for that. At the end of the day, we will have only a certain amount to offer Roger, if he is fine taking that money and playing, then great. If not, its his fault...he can retire. Take the bargaining power away from Clemens' hand.
I remember people saying the same thing about Scott Elarton, and that kept us from getting the Roger Clemens who won 2 Cy Youngs with the Blue Jays. Sure, Backe could develop, but you never know. Abreu, on the other hand, is a proven commodity.
Exactly, set this team up as if Roger had just retired. Don't count on him returning. That way you can obtain the necessary parts. Then if he does decide to return, it will just be a huge plus to our already well set team. ....That's my dream for the team.
Clements = National League Series and World Series No Clements = mediocrity Astros and Astros fans. . sit ya *sses down and give the man room Rocket River
I dont know...I doubt Matt Clement can get us that far. Not sure what we'd have to give up to get him from the Red Sox.
The fact that pitching is at a premium explains why we could potentially get an all-star outfielder for a mediocre 3rd or 4th pitcher with an ERA of 4.7. Backe may or may not develop into a great pitcher. We thought the same about numerous other pitching prospects that never panned out. We love him for his attitude and all, but we need hitting and you're not going to get much better a hitter than Abreu, and certainly not at the cost of Qualls/Backe.
Found this on the Stros Site http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASAp...t_id=1276647&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou Astros must wait for Clemens' decision 12/05/2005 8:39 PM ET By Alyson Footer / MLB.com DALLAS -- The Houston Astros wanted an answer from Roger Clemens sooner rather than later regarding his status for the 2006 season, but according to Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks, the Astros need not stand by the phone and wait for it to ring. It's going to be a while before Clemens makes his decision. Hendricks informed general manager Tim Purpura on Sunday that Clemens will decide if he wants to play next season sometime in late January or early February. "We told the Astros -- because it's their desire to know -- 'If you need an answer, you should presume he's not playing,'" Hendricks said at the Wyndham Anatole Hotel in Dallas, site of this year's Winter Meetings. The issue apparently is health. Clemens, who posted an historic 1.87 ERA in 2005, did most of that damage in the first five months of the season. He was slowed by hamstring and back issues in September and through the playoffs, and Clemens isn't sure his body would hold up over a full season that could include a playoff appearance. He's going to take his time deciding if he's able to return to the mound with the same dominance he displayed in his first two seasons with the Astros. "He wants to take stock in his health and his motivation at that point in time," Hendricks said. "If someone said, 'You have to decide today,' what will you do? The answer would be he would retire. He doesn't think at this point, based on the end of the season, that he's got seven months of baseball in him to go through that grind at age 43, age 44." None of this came as a surprise to the Astros, who knew they would not have an answer from Clemens by Wednesday's deadline to offer free agents arbitration. But Hendricks' message makes one thing perfectly clear: if the Astros wait for a decision from Clemens before they make other roster moves, there won't be a plan B, or C, or D on which to fall back. By late January early February, free agents who are desirable and signable will most certainly be signed, by other clubs. Hendricks understood the Astros' urgency to receive a decision from Clemens, considering what happened during the Carlos Beltran negotiations last year. But the agent made it clear the Astros' timetable and The Rocket's timetable are pretty much light years apart. And, quite frankly, the Astros' timetable doesn't appear to be much of a concern in Clemens' camp. "We told them to do what they need to do," Hendricks said. "If they offer arbitration, we understand. If they don't offer arbitration, we understand. If they want to sign a hitter and not sign him ... they can do whatever they want to do. It's not personal. "He's very pleased to have been a part of the Astros and happy to do that. He's not prepared to make a decision etched in concrete today just because they have this need to know." A number of scenarios could emerge after Wednesday. If the Astros do not offer Clemens arbitration, they cannot sign him until May 1, a month after the regular season begins. If they offer Clemens arbitration, The Rocket has until Dec. 19 to accept or reject the offer. If he accepts it, he's a signed player and the two sides have to come to a salary figure. That figure is sure to be exorbitant, and it could add more than $20 million to a payroll already expected to eclipse the loosely based payroll limit of $85 million. If Clemens rejects arbitration, the Astros have until Jan. 8 to sign Clemens, and if they don't come to an agreement, they can't sign him until May 1. Purpura said the club has not decided whether to offer Clemens arbitration. Purpura also said he wasn't discouraged by Hendricks' message. "It just gives us some certainties to what the decision-making process is and the time frame for the decision-making process," Purpura said. "Then we have to go about our business and do what's best for our organization. Certainly, we'd love to have Roger on board, there's no doubt about it. But we also understand his thought process, what he's going through to try to make this decision. "His commitment to the World [Baseball] Classic is intriguing. It shows a willingness on his part to at least participate in that tournament on behalf of his country. That gives me some indication that he thinks he's got something left." In most cases, the May 1 date is another way of saying the player's tenure with that club is effectively over. But that might not be the case with Clemens, who wasn't very good in the last two months of the season but was spectacular for the first five. Could the Astros be in for a midseason Rocket return? Neither side wanted to look too far into that possibility, but no one ruled it out, either. If Clemens were to accept arbitration and the two sides agreed to a contract, Clemens could be put on the "voluntary retired" list, in which case he would be required to sit out for 60 days of the championship season. He could return around June 1 -- with a new contract -- and including the postseason, that would give him five months on the mound. "A player could sit out a period of time, come back and play for that club," Purpura said. "Nothing prohibits that. But obviously a player wants to put in a full season. Typically, a club wants him to put in a full season. But we're into creativity here. We'll see where we go." In the meantime, the Astros are moving forward with their offseason. They have been on the lookout for offensive help, either via trade or free agency. Purpura has also been looking at starting pitchers, a task that is sure to gain more steam now that Clemens is not close to a sure thing. That probably means the Bobby Abreu for Brandon Backe and Chad Qualls rumor loses some of its luster, considering the Astros are not in any position to trade their starting pitchers. Purpura had a couple of discussions with clubs on Monday, and he also continued conversations with some of the club's free agents. Catcher Brad Ausmus is the club's No. 1 priority in that respect. "We've continued to negotiate with Brad and his agent," Purpura said. "I did not speak to them yesterday, but I received a proposal and we'll address that." This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
I completely agree with this and it's because of this that I believe Clemens is doing the right thing. I believe also, that if the Astros bring in a major stick to the team, Clemens will return for less money, but not less than his first year here.
bats should be our target this offseason REGARDLESS if clemens comes back **** planning the whole thing around clemens we need some damn bats or someone else on our staff will lead the league in worst run support and no decisions
I just read that if we don't sign Clemens or offer him arbitration before 11pm wednesday night that we will be unable to sign him until May. This sucks. Clemens is not going to sign before wednesday, which means we will be forced to go to arbitration, which means Clemens is going to get a ****load of money. So much for hoping he would play cheap so we could get some offense.
Theoretically, if they don't offer him arbitration, he becomes a free agent correct? And with that in mind, couldn't he sign with us as a free agent for a cheaper rate? I think Clemens is doing the right thing. I mean, the guy won a cy young and got pretty damn close to another one (if he had run producers) this past year. Why pitch another year if it meant not getting past the 1st round of the playoffs or not in the playoffs at all? And as his agent said, the Astros should plan their offseason as if Clemens isn't coming back at all. If that means: -moving Backe and Qualls for Abreu -moving some minor league players + another everyday player (Lane, Burke, etc) for Zito then we should do it. Heck, with a rotation of Pettite, Oswalt, and Zito and a proven hitter to add to Berkman and Ensberg, why WOULDN'T Clemens want to come back? Even though I doubt the Astros are trying to get him, getting Zito is just as important as getting Abreu IF we have to trade Backe and Qualls. You have to plan with the worst case scenario in mind at the point IMO. Would it totally put the payroll into the stratosphere? Most likely, but if it pretty much guarantees a spot in the World Series and an opportunity to bring the championship home, McClane NEEEEDS to do it. C'mon....Clemens/Zito/Pettite/Oswalt?!???! The NL might as well just put the astros on a 162 game bye.
They're not gonna sign him, so they'll offer him arbitration. But they can still settle with him before going to arbitration. So he still could technically play for cheap. I believe that's what they did with Lance Berkman last year.
Here's what I don't like. He started this whole offseason saying he wasn't sure. The next thing we heard is that he had already made a decision...and then left us all speculating as to a quick announcement. None was forthcoming. Now it's that he won't let us know until late-January. So fine...move on. Spend money. But he better not expect $18 million again. His wife once told my business partner that their last contract with the Yankees was completely topping on the cake. That they hit all their financial targets before that contract was completed. Their lifetime targets that they planned with their agent and financial planners. Sooooo...we know he doesn't NEED the money. So if we spend that money elsewhere, I don't want to hear b****ing that he needs to be paid like a top pitcher...because that money won't be had here in Houston at that point. Not if we go out and build a team assuming he ain't coming. Trade for Zito. Trade for Abreu.
Just reading this reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy pisses me off. The Astros just need to move on at this point. Assume that he wont be back and try to get Zito and Abreu. Id be cool with those transactions. Question: Who would we trade to get Zito????
A couple more thoughts.... a) Why would Clemens commit to pitching in the World Cup of Baseball but not give us ANY indication whatsoever that he will come back. Granted his agents said he may pitch BP or just practice....but why say "I'm in" if he is really done? I understand its an exhibition and its fun to play for your country...but this World Cup may only last one year...its not like he is accepting an invite to play in the Olympics b) Secondly, and perhaps more importantly....some of you are talking like you expect him to have a year like he has had the past 2 years. I KNOW he is a freak of nature...and I KNOW he does things that normal humans dont. However, we are putting a LOT of stock and hope in a guy who, IF he comes back, may not be anywhere near the guy he has been. He may very well win 25 games....we dont know...and the odds of him being good are better than him having an off year....but he is a year older....and his body really took a beating at the end of last season. As inhuman as he is......he's only human (u get the jist).
I've never liked this guy. Sure I'd like to have him back and I'm glad that he's pitched so well the last two years. But I still don't like him. It's weird I can almost always like anybody in a Houston uniform. But I haven't come around with the Rocket. Anyways he needs to make up his mind. If he does come back I'd defintely wouldnt give him whatever he got last year. He's a year older and he was done come October. Use that money on a bat or Zito. If he wants to come back for less than let him. But this guy isnt #1 anymore probaly not #2. He should not be paid like one. He was dominant the first half but the 2nd half he wasn't and the playoffs he wasn't even close. Ya he wasn't healthy but at 43 I'm not convinced he can go close to a full season/playoffs again. Come back Roger but just for a little less
The Astros have to offer him arbitration by Wednesday to be able to sign him before May 1st. They don't have to actually sign him before Wednesday. If they offer arbitration, all that does is allow them to keep negotiating with him until the arbitration hearing sometimes in February. Clemens will be offered arbitration and then if he decides to return they'll have some sort of contract in place almost as soon as he makes his decision. I actually think that Clemens waiting will help the Astros. If they will get on the ball and do like others have said work the off season as if he isn't coming back, then they will be in pretty good shape. If he then decides to return in January there is no way Drayton tells him I'm sorry we can't afford you. The amount Clemens brings in by himself in revenue will more than pay for his contract. He also knows the PR nightmare he'd have on his hands if he turned Roger away. Fans would go nuts, and revolt no matter how well the team played. IMO the thing that will hurt the Astros most this offseason is Bagwell. Knowing how much he is going to be in the books for and my gut feeling that he will be finished is a problem. he won't make any decision until ST so the Astros won't have his salary to work with.
"I think his commitment to the World Classic is intriguing," Purpura said. "That gives me some indication that he thinks that he's got something left that he can go out and participate in that." -timmy p I must agree with Tim on this one. If he can pitch in March, well he can damn well pitch a few games for the stros.
