Yao TO = 2.30 Duncan TO = 3.08 Garnett TO = 2.57 S. O'Neal TO = 2.60 Let's talk about TOs. Yao only played 30 minutes a game while Duncan/KG play 40 minutes a game. 2.30 TOs in 30 minutes equals 3.2 TOs in 40 minutes. So-called "TO-machine" Francis averaged 3.7 TOs per game while playing 40 minute a game.
Yao's turnovers don't seem that bad because often times the ball is intercepted by the defender before Yao even touches the ball. So, the turnover is counted as Steves'. One big different between Yao and O'Neal (or Duncan, Garnett) is that Yao can be denied the ball by fonting him. There isn't a solution yet. We will see if Yao and Van Gundy can find a solution next year.
Don't get me wrong, I love Yao. BUT, I am just not sure if he can be that leader that we need in him. Maybe it's his fatigue, or slowness that scares me, or his passive play. I don't know. A combination of all 3 i guess. BUT, I am not a Yao hater. I don't want people to think that. I believe the guys this team should be built around are Yao, SF, and JJ.
great post. I couldn't agree more. one thing about Yao, his size and the fact that he was our recent #1 draft pick....is that we tend to criticize him too much. Like, I admit it, when he plays I always seem to think he needs to shoot 100% etc. LIke when he is clanking his shots and shooting (shooting around 50%) I tend to get frustrated. It's like I have too high of expectations for our #1 pick. I don't know. I just hope we will be BETTER next season.
Yao's TO is overrated. Since Yao need to post up and back to basket a lot, if without help, some TO is expected when doubled or tripled team. Of course, those are correctable problems with practice, better court vision and strength training.
Incredible stat twister man! KG plays Iron man minutes without turning the ball over much. Agreed. Duncan? First of all, Yao played 33 mpg this year, Duncan played like 36.5, maybe 37. Let's call it a 4 minute difference. Their TO/48 minutes are remarkably similar if you look at this year and career wise. If you looked at Duncan's first few seasons in the league, then the comparison is even more favorable. You know what I will give you though, is that Yao causes more turnovers attributed to other people because of his inability to catch.
you know that is a very interesting stat. couple that with the fact that francis ahndles the ball every possession with a defender guarding him while he is dribbling as opposed to holding the ball and it gets even more interesting.
Look, no one including we doubters said Rox should dump Yao, we just said Yao is not mentally, physically ready to carry and lead a team. Most of us suggest that let him continue developing until he is ready. We think it would be stupid and highly risky to rebuild a playoff team, trade Steve Franics, their best player and current leader, for a bunch of role players instead another legit star in return. So who is the impatient one? And all you people agree Yao’s not a superstar, franchise player right now, you all value him based on his potential. So what if he never fulfills his potential. What if Rox sucks next year? All we said is Yao may OR may not become the player we all hoping for, so don’t bet all your chips on him, that is all.
Beating the fronting is not just the big man's responsibility. It takes the whole team to do it. Look at Shaq in game 1 against the Spurs. They turned the ball over many times by trying to pass it to Shaq while fronted. The lob pass is the obvious solution. But you have to worry about weakside help. A lot of times you need some complicated play to change the angle of the entry pass. Timing, angle, picks, and the ability of the big man to seal off the defender, all come to play. The Rockets already have tried different solution, not just under JVG, but with Rudy too. Ball movement and player movement without the ball are the keys. It's not just one man's problem.
What you said is correct. But Yao definitely makes it harder for the guards to pass him the ball. Mark Jackson is an excellent passer, but he cannot pass the ball to Yao easily. When Hakeem played, he liked to say "Throw me the ball." The guards just threw him the ball and he caught the ball almost everytime. It was as simple as that, not complicated at all.
Again, it's not as simple as "throw me the ball" especially in this era of zone. Teams now can shadow the weakside when they front. Hakeem never had to worry about that. In Hakeem's day, the other three guys could just stand outside of the 3pt line and the defenders had to stay out there, leaving the lane wide open for the lob pass. As I said, even Shaq has problem getting the pass with fronting. It is no longer just between the big man and the passer. It involves a third, or even a fourth player to beat the fronting. So it's not just Mark Jackson or Steve Francis or whoever.
This is the boat I'm in. I'm not saying he can't become a leader, but at the moment he is most certainly not.
Wow, you have no idea how ironic that post was... Hey, let's try to strengthen our argument by indirectly insulting our opponent's intelligence! OK, yip? That always makes you look smarter and gets you deserved respect! I actually think my response was damned intelligent, and the lack of substance in your response (nearly entirely just a personal attack) proves as much. And yes, the 3 at the end of my moniker is, in fact, a coincidence. The number 3 has been my lucky number long before I even knew what a "Steve Francis" was. This moniker is eternal. Never question the moniker. Well maybe not depending on your viewpoint, but he is in terms of talent and age when compared to say Jason Kidd or Nash and the like. About 9 months ago, few people would have questioned the logic behind my statement, but now 1 bad season later it's complete blasphemy to suggest what I suggested. And yes, you can be sure that the fact that I am a Rocket fan and a Francis supporter influenced me saying that, and that's how it should be. I want to keep our core together, but I'm not a complete homer, hence I'm willing to sacrifice Steve for one of the younger megastar gaurds. Does that help you understand where I'm coming from without thinking that I'm completely off it? Oh, wow, I'm thoroughly impressed. A stinging dose of yipengzhao's wit. Stinging, really... Funny thing is, Francis HAS shown us he's capable of leading this team consistently, and he HAS shown us that he shows up when the team needs him most (the playoffs and the playoff-clincher as anecdotes). Francis was the best and most consistent player on this team for 4 years before this season and led the team to 2 winning records. Sure, he didn't get them to the playoffs, but we'd be deep, deep in the lottery both last year and this year if it wasn't for Francis. Now Francis' jumper falls flat for one season after he has to make major adjustments, but he shows steady improvement towards the end of the season, yet people STILL want to drop him like he never meant anything to us.
good! i was afraid the irony would be lost on you. and hey, i don't have any delusions about how intelligent i am, so i never try to prove that to anybody. if there's anything i've learned in college, it's that no one is really THAT smarter than anyone else. anyway, you came back with one or two good points. i don't necessarily agree with them. but they are at least points. so i guess i really have no problems with them.
I know why...I know why...for 3 minutes in every Rockets game last season, he actually thought Yao was Duncan... thats why he thought Yao played 30 mpg and Duncan played 40 mpg.
What I don't get in all this Yao debate is why are we expecting more from him than he has delivered? Did someone get the idea he was coming in with the body, conditioning, experience and skills of Wilt Chamberlain? Why can't we accept Yao for who he is. I believe he has lived up to Rudy's expectations when he was drafted. Being the #1 pick puts great expectations out there, but you get who you draft. He was a great #1 choice, but he is not Jordan or Lebron James. He is Yao. A 7'-6" center who has great passing skills, has a good shot and a great attitude as far as willingness to learn. He is coachable. And most important he is big, tall and has NBA talent. He has a lot to learn and develop and improve. But he is not dog meat. He can dominate when he plays well and hard and aggressive. No body on this board know if he will become great, a franchise player. He has a better chance than any other player on our roster, including Steve. I don't understand why Rocket fans would be disappointed with Yao Ming? He turned out to be legit. He is not a bust. Please believe me everyone in the league sees him as a legitimate force at center, but no one in the NBA sees thinks he has peaked. He hasn't. He is better right now than Rik Smits. Most teams would take a young Rik Smits right now as their center. The debate on whether Yao is a bust or even a franchise player is useless because he is behind on his development. Let's wait until to see if he improves some more next season. If he does, we can shut up, because he will be a top 2-3 center. If he is no better next year and he wears down again, then lets do this debate next season. I don't see the point since this is his 2nd year and he has made some great progress.
Sorry, haven't read most of this thread. I can only read so much of the same stuff over and over again. BBBBBBBBB BbbbbbbbbB BbbbbbbbbbB BbbbbbbbbbB BbbbbbbbbB BbbbbBBBB BbbbbbbbbB BbbbbbbbbbB BbbbbbbbbbB BbbbbbbbbB BBBBBBBBB and as for A? I don't see the Rockets trading Francis anytime soon. Especially after the playoffs <---- Will I have to eat crow for this too? If Yao comes back looking like Shaq? You got me... but it's not going to happen
