ALL STARS RESERVES NAMED

West is only averaging 20pts 7 rebounds.

Al Jefferson averages 22.7 and 10.50 and 1.6 blocks much more deserving. I would even say durant should be in it regardless of his teams horrible record

 

Hard to get picked when you team sucks. Look at all the Dwight Howard "take alongs", two undeserving players.

 

if you think rashard lewis doesnt deserve to be an all star this year then i dont think you have watched any orlando magic game.

 

So I guess 17-9 and 2nd best fg% in the league isn't deserving?

 

Yes, I have. Lewis has arguably been the 4th best player on that Orlando team this year. He made it over Turkeyglue simply because he's a bigger name. That, and the fact that people don't know how to vote correctly all make his selection a joke. David Lee was much more deserving, for example.

Why not just make them all All-Stars? Dwight, Nelson, Turkeyglue, Lewis. That's the direction this joke of a selection process is moving in.

 

you could make the case that if Jefferson was on the Hornets he'd be averaging less b/c he has Chandler next to him rebounding and blocking shots and has CP3 and Peja scoring.

Just saying it's not quite as cut and dry as that, and that's why sometimes you can go with the player on the better team when it's relatively close

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=lewisra02&y1=2009&p2=piercpa01&y2=2009

People are saying Shard shouldn't be there, which is perfectly understandable but I don't hear anyone saying Pierce shouldn't be there. They're evenly matched. I'm fine with both players, but I'd take out Pierce since Lewis on numbers alone has a slight advantage.

or

I'd have both of them off and put in Jamison and Carter.

 

Go back and re-read post #36 for my suggestion on how to improve this selection process. I don't think it should be so heavily reliant upon a team's record. Records should be considered (obviously), but I honestly think it should be based upon the best players having the best seasons. Unless the evidence is overwhelming, I see no reason why a single team should get 3-4 representative on a 12-man roster. There's 15 teams in each conference -- it defies logic.

I'm sorry but i'm not one of those guys that dismisses a player putting up monster numbers on a bad teams. Sure, it's different if they're Zach Randolph-esque numbers/style, but if you're putting up solid, respectable and efficient numbers like players like Durant, Jefferson and others are you deserve consideration as well. It shouldn't be all about pimping the Pistons, Suns or whoever with three All-Stars every year. That's tedious and an enormous discredit to the rest of the league.

Speaking of defying logic, what the hell are you talking about? Was there some kind of crazy talent surge in the Eastern Conference that nobody told me about? The NBA is stacked with All-Star level talent. It was last year, it was this year and it always will be. There were snubs last year, there were snubs this year -- are you suggesting that this Magic team could have had all four of those guys make the All-Star squad last year? More importantly: are you advocating that?!

This is a cop out because you know i'm right. Bragging about Lewis making the most three pointers proves absolutely nothing. He's a soft power forward that shoots three's and gets something like six boards a game while playing 40 minutes a night. That's pitiful for a 6'10" four. Turkeyglue does the same things Lewis does only he's responsible for ball handling duties and often times is stuck defending the opponent's best perimeter player. He's arguably been more valuable to their success. The claim still stands: Lewis has arguably been the 4th best player on that team this year. The fact that it's so close between Turkeyglue-Lewis only furthers my point. What happens next year....all four of them make it?

 

So there's fans that complain that the "fan" vote is ridiculous and stupid because of selections of past superstars because of their "big" names and previous performances in seasons many a past. And then we have people like you who complain that the Magic are taking 3 players because they have a very nice record and the so called "people" you refer to who just happen to be COACHES thought those players played a large role in contributing to the Orlando's overall success. Don't get me wrong is David Lee deserving to be an All-Star? Sure. But is he much more deserving than Shard like you say? Hardly.

Every year there's going to be snubs/very deserving players left out. Not everyone will be happy or satisfied. Just be glad no Jazz-holes were selected.

 

No kidding, I know it's the coaches that vote the reserves. I'm criticizing them more than anybody. Sure, the fans are whacked out sometimes but at least they got 8/10 starters right with AI and Amare being the head scratchers.

The coaches are primarily responsible for the Suns, Pistons or whoever getting three All-Stars every year. It's a 12 man roster. Like I stated in my last post, unless the evidence is overwhelming I think that's a little extreme. There are others arguably more deserving than Shard yet it's a moot point because of the emphasis coaches place on overall record. Compound that with my opinion that Turkeyglue has had a better season yet Lewis was given the nod because he's a past All-Star/bigger name, you have the basis for my gripe.

I will add that at least the COACHES...HAPPY? got it right by adding Granger, Harris and Bosh despite their sub .500 records. Funny how common sense prevails there yet it doesn't in other cases.

 

I don't know how anyone could argue that the celtics big 3 shouldn't be all-stars. Paul Pierce is the go to guy on one of the best teams in the league, KG is arguable the best defender in the league, and Ray is a SG getting 18 pts a night on 50% fg%, 41.5% 3pt%, and 93.6% ft%. That is spectacular. I would even as far as to say Ray Allen should be STARTING in the ASG.

David Lee is one of my favorite players...but he ain't no all-star, especially if you consider the pace the knicks play at inflates their stats.

 

I don't know what the hell Jameer Nelson and Rashard Lewis are doing as All-Stars. Turkoglu is a much better player than either of them on the Magic. I would've put Ray Allen and Vince Carter in those spots. In the West, I would've picked Jefferson over West and Deron Williams over Parker.

 

And people complain about fans voting.....

 

As "dumb" and unelitist as it sounds, fan voting is underrated. It's better than coach voting, which is obsessed with pushing the agenda of only rewarding players on winning teams.

The fans used to vote Vince Carter in as a starter...while the coaches were picking guys like Wally Sczcerbiak, Dale Davis, and Jamaal Magloire. Most of the most out-there "All-Stars" in recent history have been selected by the coaches.

This year isn't that bad, in that there's no Jamaal Magloire "WTF?!" pick. However, I feel the coaches didn't select all of the best players:

-Neither Paul Pierce or Rashard Lewis have been playing the best. They're there because their teams are great.
-Vince Carter was snubbed. He was once overrated, but the backlash he has suffered has been so great that he is now underrated. "NJ doesn't deserve two All-Stars?" It's not Vince's fault that aside from Devin Harris, his team is mostly crap.
-David West is in there for being Chris Paul's sidekick. Al Jefferson continues to go unrecognized.

 

I know. That's why I don't watch the ASG anymore. To me, All Stars aren't the most popular players but the players who are playing best this year. Why do I want to watch someone else's favorite players who aren't even playing well?

Actually, the problem was there before there was a Chinese dude in the league. Before there was internet voting, it was well known that people stuff ballots for players of their team. The whole system was just dumb.

Like I said elsewhere, besides fan voting, the second dumbest thing about the ASG is using the "guard" "forward" "center" categories. A PF is more like a C than a SF. A SG is more like a SF than a PG. Yet PFs are grouped with SF, not with Cs, and SGs are grouped with PGs, not SFs. So you can end up with a lineup with two PFs and two SGs, or two PGs and two SFs.

 

I have no problem with 'making the NBA global'. It is global, it has been global. My problem is the fans or coaches not voting intelligently. The Chinese vote undoubtedly skews the results every year. Sure, Yao is deserving but don't be surprised if Sun Yue (if he actually plays) is receiving more votes than Brandon Roy next year. You can't just ABANDON the Chinese vote but you can take the 'fan vote' in with moderation -- and a contingency plan if unworthy All-Stars get voted in as starters. It's a complete disservice to the rest of the NBA if the All-Star game is reduced to merely a popularity contest. Starting for the NBA All-Star game should involve more than just a popularity context --- just my opinion though.

How is it bogus? I broke it down for you gently. The general perception is NBA All-Stars are generally determined by winnings records. That's the standard practice and that's usually the barometer for which NBA All-Stars are judged and measured. It's the EXACT reason why the Pistons, Suns and whoever keep getting three All-Stars every year. The Magic are just a new example of this. What are you missing here?

Get your 5th grade "Orlando is playing fantastic team basketball" crap out of here. Cleveland has had the best record in the NBA yet one All-Star representing their team. There are plenty of good teams 'playing great team basketball'. Is Cleveland not playing 'great team basketball too'? [Wow, don't I sound intelligent?] I could argue the fricken Thunder play great team basketball yet you don't hear me arguing the Thunder deserve 3-4 All-Stars. Ohhh no, but Dear God help the world if they had a winning record right now: they might have multiple All-Stars, right?

Name me a team with a winning record that doesn't play 'great team basketball'. You'll quickly find how laughable this argument is. I get that its the 'coaches that impress them' but that's part of my whole point -- it shouldn't be all about winning, it should also be taken on a case-by-case basis. Whether its the fans, coaches or whoever voting on this -- common sense should prevail. Saying 'so-so with inferior numbers that plays for a better team than the #1 option with efficient numbers on bad team is better' doesn't win any arguments in my book.

 

um...the rockets.

...but i think team record has to be factored in. If we're trying to get the best players in the all star game you have to take into account that there are good players on good teams who have stats that are inferior to players on bad teams. Should Pau be left off the team because he isn't getting his 20/10 on a losing team?

Here's another example. I think Jim Raynor was saying Vince Carter got snubbed and Paul Pierce didn't deserve to be on the team. Paul Pierce has put up big numbers in the past and there is little reason for me to believe that he wouldn't be putting up big numbers on a team as bad as the nets. I feel, and so do the coaches, that Pierce is the better player than VC even though he isn't scoring 20+.

 

Agreed. I'm not saying record should be disregarded. Just that it should be a secondary factory in making your decision. I don't have a gripe with Gasol making it over Jefferson or Durant. Gasol is one of the best big men in the conference, having a great season plus he's the reason the Lakers were even bolstered into contender status in the first place. He's definitely an All-Star in my book.

Agreed on VC vs. Pierce, also. I've watched enough of the Nets to notice that even though Vince puts up solid numbers, its Harris that carries them. Despite their record, Harris has stood out and played out of his mind. I'm glad the coaches got that one right. I would have thrown up if they would have snubbed Harris in favor of Rondo, for example. Mo Williams has a legit claim though.