In the 80's, McHale used to abuse Chuck when they played. Charles Barkley could not guard McHale. McHale was had the best post moves ever.
If I need defense at any point at the PF or C position, I have one of the best defensive players of all time sitting on my bench. Big Ben. I can also get a distinct rebounding and defensive advantage off the bench. Joe Dumars is a top 10 guard of all time as well as one of the best if not the best defender the backcourt has ever seen. Paul Arizin grabed over 11 boards and scored over 25 points a game as well. I think people are more caught up in the hype of his players, but mine are old school and would make the best team.
Lebron is a much better shooter than Wilkins. Barkley can spread the floor a lot more than McHale. Between Dwight and Yao I have more size than you have. Ray and Reggie is a wash. Ray actually averaged more points in a season but its basically dead even. They will be chasing each other constantly. Off the bench I have another fantastic shooter in Pierce and Kevin Johnson who can sprint as a point. Ben Wallace is 10 INCHES shorter than Yao. That's a tough matchup even for him
I would never put Wallace on Yao. Your argument of Barkley over Mchale is like your argument that Dwight can hang with Shaq, wrong. As Roxsquad stated, Barkley got beasted by Mchale when they played. My front court has a huge advantage over yours, and Isiah could penetrate all day.
That's just not true though. It just isn't. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=barklch01&p2=mchalke01 McHale dominated rookie Barkley. By 1987-88 Barkley was dominating McHale. This is prime version of both. Barkley got even better. Barkley rebounds a lot better than McHAle as well. Joe Dumars is not a top 10 guard of all time. That is also just factually incorrect. There is no argument for that. He's barely a top 10 shooting guard of the last 20 years. Dumars is better than KJ defensively yeah, but offensively its not even close. Dumars doesn't give any sort of offensive spark. KJ dunks on people./
Yeah. Ben Wallace isnt going to do much against Yao. I don't think he could even guard Barkley very well since a prime Barkley was explosive and played like a point-forward. Barkley's biggest weakness is his height, but that weakness is neutralized if Wallace guards him. I'm not seeing where the rebounding advantage comes from. Dumars is most definitely NOT a top 10 guard of all time. Maybe top 25. And he's maybe top 10 in backcourt defense. Definitely not top 5. Paul Arizin was 6'4. How many rebounds do you honestly think he'd get against VBG's team? 3? Maybe 4?
There's a difference between "top 10 shooting guard of all time" and "top 10 guard of all time." Dumars is listed as the 10th best shooting guard of all time. If you're going to claim that he's a top 10 guard of all time, you're going to have to factor in all the great PG's that would go ahead of Dumars.
Just forget about Arizin. He's 6'4 and you're pulling his statistics from 1952. Think about how much the game has evolved since then. He should only see minutes if 4 of your players foul out. 1952. Seriously?
This is an all NBA mock draft, not last 20 years bud. If you like his team that much, vote for his, which I'm sure you have done. But stop arguing, you're making yourself look dumb. Let's throw out all Wilts stats too. He played too long ago. Anyways, I've said what I need to say.
Wilt's stats were overwhelmingly dominant. Sure, an argument can be made to discount them somewhat b/c he played in a weaker era. But you can't dismiss that level of production. Arizin's numbers weren't anything special. And the game has evolved a lot in the 40 years since he played. Could the guards back then even dribble with both hands? Jerry West was from the 60's and he mainly dribbled w/ his right hand. Do you honestly believe that Arizin could stay with Kevin Johnson? And how am I making myself look dumb? I posed a lineup of Magic, Lebron, Ray Allen, Dwight, and Yao that I felt would neutralize your advantages, and I explained my reasons. You responded by ignoring all of my explanations and instead said that Ben Wallace could guard Dwight or Yao if needed, Dumars was an all-time top 10 guard and one of the best backcourt defenders in NBA history, and that Arizin (6'4) once averaged 11 rpg (in 1952). Yet I'm the one making myself look dumb? In other words, you have no answer to a lineup of Magic, Ray Allen, Lebron, Dwight, and Yao.
Isiah, reggie, Wilkins, Wallace, Shaq. or Dumars, Reggie, Wilkins, Mchale , Shaq. or Isiah, Dumars, Wilkins, Wallace/Mchale, Shaq. Wallace can shut down and out rebound Dwight. Prime Shaq was the most dominat force ever. Yao would get abused. I still would have a distinct front court advantage. Pick which ever back court line up you want. I have lethal shooting, lethal penetration, and lethal defense. whatifpsorts.com also has me winning 5 out 7 with the lineup you propoed.
I've already mentioned that Isiah can be contained by giving him space to shoot jumpers (he's a poor long-distance shooter). Dumars was a better shooter than Isiah, but he was also an inferior playmaker. The problem is that a backcourt of Dumars and Reggie means that there's no true PG and the offense will suffer as a result. In any case, Dumars could probably score against Magic, but not as easily as Magic could score against him. I still think a lineup of Magic, Allen, Lebron, Dwight, and Yao is superior. How would you stop Magic from posting up Isiah/Dumars with Yao being camped 17 feet away from the basket to draw out Shaq? Dwight Howard and Ben Wallace have played against each other 21 times. In those matchups, Dwight has averaged 17/13 and Wallace has averaged 4/8. Disagree. I think Yao (circa 2009) would do a great job defending prime Shaq simply b/c of height and size. Remember, Shaq's game is predicated on bullying his way to the basket. A prime Yao would be the most physically imposing player Shaq could face. Whatifsports also had the 93-94 Knicks beating the 93-94 Rockets 5 out of 7 games with 4 of those games being played at the Summit.
But that lineup is not going to work. I agree Wallace can shut down Dwight, outrebound no, but shutdown yes. But guess what, DWIGHT IS NOT MY OFFENSE. He's only there for transition and putbacks, which he is amazing at. He's also great at setting picks. Lebron is so much better than Wilkins as a playmaker and a defender. Wilkins can score and... rebound decently? I also have Pierce off the bench to keep everyone fresh. Dwight and Barkley are A LOT FASTER than Shaq and Wallace/McHale and my team is playing a 7 seconds or less offense with showtime Magic. It depends on how people fit in an offense. EVERYONE except Reggie on your team is an on the ball scorer. I have Dwight, Ray Allen and Lebron to an extent who are great of the ball.
IMO this matchup came down to the bench. I was actually close to selecting Authentic91 as the winner but after looking at the bench matchups I decided VBG is the winner
you're one of those people impossible to argue with. No **** Magic is going to out rebound anyone at the guard spot and be able to do what he does. he was the best ever. But i have offense that he can't contain and a defense that could contain him. You keep throwing out some special lineup saying "What are you going to do against him? huh? huh?" Only weak teams need to change their line-up for anothers. When the Warriors start playing small on the lakers, do the lakers go, oh, need to go small? No they don't. They stay big and dominate. My team had everything in an offense and defense. Is 10 times better in the halfcourt. and Each and everyone of my players can scored with will against the man guarding them. You can't say that. All you have is better rebounding at the guard position, playmaking at the 3 spot, and better fast break team other than that. I have the better team. Lebron is going to get abused when he tries to play backup 4, and you have no backup SG. And you saying Yao can guard prime Shaq is homerism at it's greatest.
