Hakeem dominated a center crop full of huge 7 footers with skill and athletic ability. Wilt played against smaller less skilled and less athletic people. I'm sorry for you if you cannot understand the concept here.
The "short white guy" argument rears its ugly head again. I'll make this simple. There were several centers that Wilt competed against that would be great players in any era, Russell, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Willis Reed. There are more names but I'm putting the greatest ones out there and the ones for which size is not an issue. Now, the league had 8-10 teams at that time. This means he was playing against one of these guys a very high proportion of the time (probably around 30-40%), especially Russell, who Wilt might play 8-10 times a year when he was with the Sixers since the Celtics were a divisional opponent, not to mention the playoffs. I don't think you can say Hakeem played against a great center 30-40% of the time, there were plenty of stiff centers in the 1990's because there were 25-30 teams.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c4Qw1-ssViw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c4Qw1-ssViw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Point me at another player who can dunk at will over 7-foot-5 all-star Mark Eaton of the 5 blocks per game... when they're 50 years old and Eaton was in his prime. Oh, it's DoD that "doesn't understand the concept." Sure. Ever heard of Walt Bellamy, Bob Lanier, Walter Dukes, Nate Thurmond, Bill Russell, Wayne Embry, Clyde Lovellete, Red Kerr, Bob Pettit, Zelmo Beaty, Willis Reed? And the fact that there were only 10-12 teams in Wilt's era, meaning even if there were fewer good players, the talent pool isn't diluted like it is today?
You're overlooking how different the rules were back then. They actually called charging and traveling, and Shaq would be hopeless on O if he couldn't lower the shoulder every time down the court.
Books. Many many books. Couldn't tell you which one off the top of my head, but I'm almost positive that quote isn't floating somewhere out on the internet to find.
Some tidbits below, but there's much more in physical books than there is out on the web. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain STRENGTH "Several years after Wilt stopped playing, he toyed with the idea of a comeback. On the day he visited the Knicks' offices in Madison Square Garden, he talked to Red Holzman, then strode out to the elevator. When it opened, two deliverymen were struggling with a dolly piled high with boxes of office supplies, mostly letterheads and envelopes. The load was so heavy, the elevator had stopped maybe four inches below the floor level and now the deliverymen were huffing and puffing, but they couldn't raise the dolly high enough to get it on the floor level. After maybe two minutes of the deliverymen's huffing and puffing, Wilt, his biceps bulging in a tank top, peered down at them and intoned, "Gentlemen, maybe I can help." They stepped back, he stepped into the elevator, grabbed each end of the rope slung under the dolly and without much exertion, quickly lifted the dolly onto the floor level. Looking up in awe, the deliverymen said, "Thank you." Wilt said, "You're welcome." Wilt stepped into the elevator and rode down to the street level as another witness followed the two deliverymen toward the Knick offices and asked, "How much does all this weigh?" They quickly surveyed the stack of big boxes of office supplies. "Close to 600 pounds," one said. [Source: The Good Natured Giant Wasn't Belligerent, Sports of the Times; Oct 13, 1999; Dave Anderson]" HOPS "I defy anyone to say they took change off the top of the backboard," Chamberlain said. "I could. Someone would put a quarter up and I'd snatch it down. I've heard stories about Jackie Jackson doing it, but I've never seen anyone (but himself) come close." Sonny Hill, a Philadelphia leaping legend of the '60s, backs Wilt, saying, "The only man that's been to the top, that's Wilt. I asked Kareem if he ever did, and he could jump a little bit. He told me, `Sonny, no.'" SHOTBLOCKING "When challenged, Wilt could do almost anything he wanted. In 1961 a new star named Walt Bellamy came into the league. Bellamy was 6-foot-10, and was scoring 30 points a game. First time they played against each other, they met at half court. Bellamy said, 'Hello, Mr. Chamberlain. I'm Walter Bellamy.' Chamberlain reached for Bellamy's hand and said, 'Hello, Walter. You won't get a shot off in the first half.' Wilt then blocked Bellamy's first nine shots. At the start of the second half Wilt said to Bellamy, 'Okay, Walter. Now you can play.'"
600 lbs of office supplies comprised mostly of paper. All on one dolly small enough that Chamberlain could grasp rope handles attached to each end. Right.
all of the stories posted are just that. stories. taking change off the top of the backboard has a lot of factors involved. his reach for one. someone said he could touch the rim without jumping. then he doesnt need a 50 inch vertical to take change off the backboard. 50 inches.. dominique maybe had a 50 inch vert. VC maybe 50 but i think they were more like 46-48. MJ had a 48 inch vert. but yeah since wilt has to be the biggest, baddest, best. why not give him a 100 inch vertical? theres a photo of him jumping over 2 players which is supposed to prove his amazing vertical (50 inches)... maybe from his bent knee to the ground. does anyone think maybe these stories are exxagerated just a little? maybe he did have hops but 50 inches?? im sure he was strong but stronger than schwarzenegger??
Again, watch Kiki tell everyone how Wilt abused Mark Eaton when he was 50 and then tell me Wilt wouldn't dominate today. The only reason there aren't tons of 7'1 guys with insane verticals running around is because there aren't many 7'1 guys around, period... not many chances for it to happen. It's improbable, no impossible. Remember he was a track and field star in every event he entered, including sprinting. He outran guards down the floor. He outran Al Attles, who was supposed to be a bullet in his day. And Al Attles himself is the one that said so.
Fair enough. Actually, one of the links above said he benched 550lb. He would have had the strongest bench press in the world in the 50's and considering how much of a show off the guy was I"m pretty sure he would have taken 5 minutes to have the record validated so that he could be in all the record books. So I call BS on that. As far as the vertical leap, well, I've seen a decent amount of video of him. If he had a 50 inch vertical leap it must have been tough for him to trick everyone into thinking it was only 30 inches. Watch his dunks. If he had a 50 inch vertical leap there's no way his head (and shoulders) wouldn't be over the rim. He's nowhere near that on any of his dunks. In fact, young Shaq appeared to have a higher vertical than the Stilt.
He couldn't bench 550lb when he was in college, he could probably bench 550lb when he was older. He was strong when his career started, but he got much stronger and by the end of his career he was possibly the strongest player ever to play in the NBA. He did high jump when he was in HS and college, and high jumped 6'6". http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/wilt/article3.html Someone on I think RealGM made a rough computation of what that translates to in terms of vertical leap, taking into account the lack of the Fosbury Flop, which adds a few inches, and they came up with a minimum of about 42 inches.
OK there seems to be a source that says he could do it when he was in college, but his bench press stuff is inconsistent and he definitely bulked up as his career went on. I think it's reasonable to believe that he could bench 550lb when he was in his prime or older.
Ok, so even if it was later in his career a 550lb bench press would have been very close to the world record. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progression_of_the_bench_press_world_record I suspect only people who don't know much about weight lifting would believe this. The bench press is an exercise that takes years to build and a "bench presser" lifestyle to attain. Not to mention, a build with short arms and a deep chest is one suited for big benches. Wilt Chamberlain actually has the worst possible bench press build a person can have. Reality just doesn't add up to the myth in this case.
Ok for a second for the sake of the argument, let's discount what Wilt's bench press numbers, off the court feats, and track and field accomplishments are in this instance. Let's just look at some footage of him playing or how he did against other HOFs: #1 - How many 7'1 players that weigh about 255 - 280 in 2000s NBA they can move nimbly, like Wilt on film or as quick or jump as high? .......... #2 - Wilt retired in 72-73, the league was slowly changing, players were quickly getting faster, stronger, more skilled (versatile), and quite taller. Also, this means this league also had greater big men...Bob Lanier, Dave Cowens, Artis Gilmore, Walt Bellamy (still in the league), Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, and most of all Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Yet even in decline, look at the commentary of how he fared against this players, watch old basketball games, and actual game stats. Especially, some of his performances against Kareem. Also, this Jabbar at his physical peak, not the late 80s version. It shows that he was more than enough for alot of these players, while being in his mid 30s. Also, look at what other big men have said about him, and even how he humbled a young Magic Johnson in a practice scrimmage. It's hard to believe some posters don't think he'd amount to much against (or would dominant) the likes Bynum, Kaman, Dampier, Chandler, Noah, and a number of undersized teams who are playing 6,10 and 6,9 guys at center now, much less the great center of the 90s. Yet, the only other substantial centers in the league that have had Wilt's size and been significant All-Star is Shaquille O'neal and Yao Ming. Another point, I'd like to bring up is Yao Ming. He is often riddled with being slow, unathletic, clumsy, and lacking in great leaping ability. Yet, he's arguably the best center in the league as we stand today (when healthy), or at least most complete. And really, the only thing has shown to slow him down consistently is health, injuries, and front defenses. He's also performed well against his top notch appears, Shaq (when he was still a 26 ppg player), Amar'e, Duncan, Dwight Howard, Ben Wallace, Gasol-Bynum, and Camby (since he is a DPOY winner). You could say his played very well against these players, more times than not. Now compare, his abilities to Wilt, he almost pales in every area, except maybe shooting range and free throw shooting. Everything is else obviously in favor Chamberlain. Better athlete, better passer, better leaper, much faster down the floor, better dribbler, better hands, better rebounder, much more healthier/fit player, and most likely stronger. Would fronting work against Wilt, again hard to say, but probably not. If these same players are having hard time stopping Yao, what would give them an advantage over Chamberlain who is also taller and larger than most of them, probably as equally, if not more athletic. Also, throw in the fact with modern NBA rules, in some games, they may not be able to body him up as much a players did in the past. Let's even say put Wilt in place of Yao, right now on the modern day Rockets who is currently without him. How much better would 2009-10 Rockets be, if they had a center, like Wilt placed on the team. Hard to say, where they finish, but in the West, couldn't the team possibly win 60 games.
Let's stop measuring Wilt's dick. If he can't hang with Dream, prime Kareem and Shaq are ready to enter the game. Discuss.
When your parameters are that specific, you've already disproven your point. Who exactly has said this? And Robinson, Duncan, Ewing, and Howard. These players would do better against Chamberlain (as opposed to Yao) simply b/c Chamberlain is not 7'5. What point are you trying to prove? I thought the thread was about 90's centers vs all others?
Francis 4 ever claimed the likes of Marcus Camby, Ben Wallace, and Tree Rollins would "eat Wilt's lunch" in post #34. He also claimed earlier that Wilt's basketball skills were on par with Ben Wallace. More amused I rarely have been.
Wilt was one of the greatest centers of all time, but come on... Alot of those stories are exaggerated like many other stories of legends. There's no way the man had a 50 inch vert. Anyways, to get back on topic, all-time team would take the cake. Kobe, Lebron, Shaq, Bird, Russell, Magic... simply too much to handle for the 90s even if they had Jordan and Hakeem.
Like I said, Shaq belongs on the 90's team. IMO, that would give the 90's team the overall advantage.
