What "point"? Tell me your point. Yeah, Lebron is way more athletic than most players were back then. THE SAME IS TRUE TODAY. You're also ignoring the fact that Wilt was a dominating track star in such events as, oh, SPRINTING, and that he could out-bench Arnold Schwarzenegger back when Arnold was in Mr. Universe shape (something SHAQ CAN'T DO). Include that in your brilliant analysis of how Tree Rollins would eat him for lunch. Did you notice how Lebron didn't dominate in international competition? That would be because they have these rules in international ball called "charging" and "traveling" that they don't have in today's NBA. You might be shocked to find out that they used to have these rules in the NBA too... such that you had to have actual basketball talent to be successful. So how about you tell me which of your "facts" you want me to address. List them out, bulleted or numbered, and they will be answered for as long as my patience lasts. And if you won't do that, I guess that proves that you're the troll, doesn't it?
Alright, let me see. I'll pick six centers, active, but non-Euro. Chris Kaman (aided by Marcus Camby) - Clippers Andrew Bynum (aided by Pau Gasol) - Lakers Erick Dampier (aided by Dirk Nowtizki) - Mavericks Samuel Dalembert (aided by Elton Brand) - 76ers Joakim Noah (aided by Tyrus Thomas) - Bulls Nene (aided by Kenyon Martin) - Nuggets Pretty diverse set of teams Alright, for the sake of the argument let's put Wilt in the league right now. Many HOF players and coaches from 60s often pointed how strong Chamberlain, even as late as the early 80s. People said Artis Gilmore was the strongest (active) player in the league at the time, but he was near as powerful as Wilt was. Also, consider Wilt weigh a good 260 to 275. Only about a handful of centers are in the weight range. Other things to consider is he was often linked to being intrigued the most by being a track star, at pretty much any event. Vertical jump of 48-50 inches, while college and to bench 550 pounds (others point to 465). That's still alot for an NBA player. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1065131/2/index.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain#Post-NBA_career http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0150219/bio 2009 NBA Draft Combine http://www.nbadraft.net/node/6301 Realize how he toyed with other HOFs who were often very skilled players or even the biggest players in the league. Those quotes about him and those accomplishments should tell he wouldn't be a run of the mill player.
I think that if you were to more carefully construct the non-90's team, you could make them just as fearsome defensively. For example, you can play Walt Frazier, possibly the greatest defensive PG ever (it's a good debate between he and Payton), Jerry West is one of the greatest defensive SG's ever, you could put John Havlicek on the team, another of the greatest defensive SG's ever, you can put Russell at PF, where he'd be just fine, and Bird at SF was a great help defender and decent man defender. Wilt and KAJ were also legendary defenders. A lineup of Wilt-Russell-Bird-Havlicek-West would be just as good as the 90's on defense, and they'd be better on offense. Nobody in any era could stop Wilt and Bird, and West would have a lot of space to work and shoot his deadly pull up jumper.
Modern day is pretty weak on centers. Maybe my Ben Wallace comparison was conservative, but there is no reason to believe he would be better than Dwight is. Only could shoot with his right, very limited moves, etc. Compared to the 90's crop of centers Wilt barely stacks up physically and he isn't even close skill wise.
What are you basing all this on? Honest question. We've both just told you he had track-star speed, which NO big man in today's NBA has, not even Dwight (though he certainly isn't slow). On top of the speed, he was one of the strongest players to ever play in the NBA, if not #1. Thirdly, his vertical was about 50 inches. You call that "barely stacks up physically?" Huh? Other way around. The only physical specimen today approaching Chamberlain's physical dominance is Lebron. And Wilt was very good in the post and, again, could fade away and hit with regularity from 16 feet. Dwight has no offensive game besides dunking and garbage points, and his passing can't hold a candle to Wilt. He has no O-game with either hand. Then calculate in that there were FAR fewer teams in that era. So every Bill Russell, every Walter Dukes, every Bob Lanier, every Nate Thurmond... he saw those level of guys all the time. It was a lot different in the late 90s when a great player was a great player on one of 30 teams rather than 12 teams.
Players that should have been included that weren't. Bernard King. Not sure if he was considered a 90 or the rest but he was better than any of the sfs on the 90s team. Also Wilkens and Isiah.
i see where youre coming from, but is it more relevant to look at what the players are capable of doing in relation to their teammates and matchups rather than personal accolades? im just saying that these other players who didnt get the hardware might play better with each other rather than having to lead a team by themselves. you could also say that players like KG and Webber would fit better on a team with proper PG and players around them. the Bullets and Timberwolves werent exactly great teams. if you put them on the Jazz in place of Malone i bet there wouldnt be much of a difference. Malone and Stockton wouldnt be able to play as well without each other.
He is basing it on the fact that the game of basketball was still an infant when Wilt was playing and putting up monster numbers against a bunch of players much shorter than him with little to no jumping ability. I'm not going to doubt that Wilt was a specimen but his numbers sound a bit exaggerated. 50 inch vertical?? give me a break. where's your proof. i believe i've read somewhere around 24 inches. granted thats still pretty good for a big guy. you send a prime AI to play against Wilt's competition and he would score 100+. These players from the 80's, 90's, and 00's would be dunking on him. He wouldnt have had monster games if Olajuwon or Shaq were matched up with him. I'll even go as far as saying with Chuck Hayes on him.
Those numbers are so inflated...there is no way Wilt had a 48-50 inch vertical. No way. And same with the bench. Just use common sense.
Modern Defenses (also add in the 3 seconds rule) http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/04/22/aldridge.defenses/ Wilt may haven't played against monsters every night, but he didn't luxuries like players (especially ones on the wing do today). No hand checking, body-ing the opponent up (unless it is Yao Ming :grin: ), no defensive 3 seconds, and no obstructing the offensive players. Makes me think Wilt might could average just as many now as he did then. That's a disadvantage for modern players, if they can't body Wilt up (no handchecking or using too much leverage with body part), he'd either outwork them in the post or blaze by them.
China Hype, there's this thing in basketball that teams are often called for...I think its call "goal-tending." Look up who is responsible for that rule.
What? You know Timmy is the best PF of all time? He's so complete offensively and defensively its ridiculous.
Look at some of these videos, you can clearly see that this guy wasn't a run of the mill 7 footer. The only other guys who I've seen jump like that and are over 7 feet tall are all in the hall of fame. There's no center today that can compare to his speed and leaping ability, while being able to exert the same kind of force over opposing players and still be nimble. Though, he was known to be egocentic and braggadocios. But, I watch old footage of him and not too many active centers can bring that type of skill, athleticism, or style of play to the table now. The man was NBA's scoring leader, all time rebounder, and even lead the league once in assist. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bDHDg5pPrOc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bDHDg5pPrOc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eBXgvdVvFL0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eBXgvdVvFL0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AhDCVO5nTcE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AhDCVO5nTcE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
What does the size of players have to do with anything? Should I compare Hakeem's size to Wilt's or maybe Kevin Duckworth and James Donaldson were better player than Hakeem? You'll have to come up with more than height and weight to prove anything.
hmmm... see Olajuwon. or Mutombo. Not gonna happen against them. Wilt is not more powerfuller than Superman, Spiderman, the Hulk, Wolverine, Professor Xavier, etc. etc. etc. He was just an anomaly for his time. I dont know why people are trying to argue that he is hands down the greatest. cant deny his numbers but thats like saying Tony Alva is a better skater than Tony Hawk. I dont ever recall seeing Alva do 720s off a halfpipe. and it isnt Alvas natural ability that is holding him back, he was an innovator of skating and Hawk was a beneficiary of it. doesnt change the fact that Tony Hawk is a better skater. 80% of the NBA prolly have some sort of DNA connection to Wilt based on his other "scoring" title.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CJ7UH_2-zv0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CJ7UH_2-zv0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MLrMw3vvhQw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MLrMw3vvhQw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> There's no way Bynum, Dampier, Kaman, Bogut, Barganini, or the Gasol brothers would be able to slow a player, like that down.
Huh? I'm simply saying that the guy measures up to the greatest talents of all time, which is why he wouldn't have very tough time against 00s centers. I believe the same about other great centers from 60s - 90s. Most of them could dominant this league fairly easy.
Call me short termed memory, but i'm putting my money on the 90s. Although I will tweak the 90s squad to Ewing, Hakeem, Dominique, MJ and Kidd as my starting 5. Robinson, Kemp, Malone, Barkley, Pippen , Drexler, Payton and Stockton.
the league as it is as of now? yeah, wilt would be a force. but the center position is pretty weak these days. but not in the 90s. he wouldve been one of many. and shaq would still be the most dominant center ever. even over wilt regardless of time period. imagine Yao in the 60s. dam. he would be so dominant back then.
