I don't like it sane, I think Posey is too good a rebounder to put at the two, like Pippen was in his Chicago days. I also do not even want to see Rice playing, if Posey is not at the 3 I want to see Nachbar there. I think the single biggest mistake Rudy is making is not playing Nachbar enough. MoT should start over Eddie because I think it would take some pressure off Eddie, but I like to see Eddie getting experience. He just needs to stop jacking up threes - that is the coaches fault for not correcting that behavioral error. I think one of the biggest problems is Mooch coming in and ****ing everything up with his wild acrobatic ****. If I see Mooch pretend to be Magic one more time I am going to need a new TV. I also don't want to see Hawkins playing anymore than NEEDed because while he is an okay scorer, he cannot play defense. And for all those who think we should trade Mobley, don't forget who is the guy who doesn't miss his free throws.
I don't know if we truly lose a lot of rebounding with Posey at the 2. I mean, Francis and Posey would make the best rebounding backcourt in the league. Ming is a better-than-average rebounder, and Rice is decent. I think we would do OK, especially since our bench has tons of rebounding (Cato, Griff). It's too late to include Nachbar. Even if he does play well, we can't let his inexperience cost us even ONE game. We need to go to the 8-man rotation. With the lineup I proposed, only Francis and Ming would demand shots, with Rice, MoT and Posey feeding off them. It also gives thema good veteran leader, and like I said, Ming would benefit from MoT and Rice's entry passes. Offense is not our problem, offensive efficiency is our problem. With Francis and especially Ming taking more shots, our efficiency goes up. Posey gets his points on tip-ins and fastbreaks, while Rice and MoT are supposedly good, high % shooters. At least, they should be. Right now, we need to make sure Ming shoots 15 times a game at least, and Francis shoots either the same or slightly more. Posey should feed off the team, while Rice and MoT should get our long-range (Rice 3's) and mid-range (MoT from 15ft) games going off outlet passes and Francis drives or Ming passes. Mobley's role would be very suitable off the bench, and it is possibly the best 8-man rotation we can put out there.
All I can say is that if we give up Cat, we better get a whole lot more in return - more than simple CAP room. Unfortunately, for all the players, purportedly in the mkt being shopped, I don't see much we can get, in a fair trade for Cat. I can see why the Rox might be shopping Cat though. He hasn't been all that consistent, much less, effective this season. He's good in so many areas, but not enough to be considered, above average. In any department, whether it be FG% or 3 Pt FG% or defense or passing, there is probably a better player to play the two. One role I think Mobley is best fit for is that 6th man on our roster. While there are lots of rumblings about the availability of Eric Snow, Mobley could easily become our Eric Snow type of player. The question is whether or not Mobley would accept a role off the bench? Whatever happens, I again hope that the Rox get at least as much in return, and much much more. theSAGE
If there is one thing that I have to disagree with Sane, it is that Rice is a "decent" rebounder. He is a freaking liability. There is no doubt he can shoot, and he is a "decent" passer, but we need some D and rebounding at the 3 and ain't got it. We would be better off putting him at the two but he is too slow to keep up with the other twos. I think Rudy plays him because he wants some experience out there. I think Francis and Mobes are experienced enough. The rest of your ideas are not bad. I just think the main problem is not going inside enough. And not just to Yao. We should be a dunkfest of a team who kicks out of double teams. That is what we are built for. All these crappy off balance jumpers need to go.
Good points LeGrouper. You are most probably right about Rice being a bad rebounder, but his passing is betetr than good. Relative to his position and game, his passing is pretty good. Sure, our defense would sudder at the 3, and barely change at the 2, but our defense has been based upon effort and Yao Ming, not defensive abilities or anything. Rice, Ming, and Posey bring the defensive effort every night, while MoT brings effort every night. He tries on D, but he's just no good. IMO, going inside would be the least of our problems with that line up. The main thing with that line-up is that it gets Ming and Francis more shots and EASIER shots. The most important part is that Posey, Rice, and MoT are the best and most willing at Yao gettign the ball inside. With Mobley not taking as many shots from him, Ming would get many many more shots with this new scheme. Also, if Mo adn Rice can hit some shots at a decent clip, that would REALLY open up the game for Steve and Ming to get easier shots. What this team is REALLY lacking is someone that teams respect from 3-pt land, as well as defense. For defense, all we need is the effort. Rice would bring that effort out. Our rebounding would suffer slightly, but a lot of it could be attributed to a higher FG% with the new line-up. Besides, right now, Posey shoots only slightly worse than Mobley, and Rice can shoot AT LEAST as well as Posey is shooting.
I don't mind the idea of posey at the two, but he plays the three so well I personally want to see him keep it. I also think that Rice would do better coming off the bench. But I guess that will not happen because Rudy doesn't want to upset his veteran's ego just like he won't upset Mobes by benching him either. Therefore reality will be Mobes at the two and Rice at the Three.
Posey is a swingman. He can play 2 or 3, as needed. No need to lock him down. His job is to swing the ball to SF or Yao, rebound, and defend the perimeter. All things Cat can't/won't do. Francis needs defensive help in the backcourt. Posey getting time at 2 to help Francis is a legitimate strategy. Posey has shown he can bring the ball up and get it to SF or Yao, who can do something with it. Cat doesn't fit. He's a scorer, not a shooter. He clogs the offense, makes terrible decisions, denys SF and Yao good touches, can't lock down, rebound, or steal. Ship him out, we can find a replacement for his 40% on 12 shots later, if necessary.
i decided to have a little fun with numbers in the season stats section of this great site. i did ast/reb/stl based on cat's minutes to make it more fair to jp. as in i took them on a per minute basis then multiplied by cat's 41.65 minutes. cat 1.40 stl/game jp 1.41 stl/game wow, thank god we have jp to save us on steals. cat 3.00 ast/game jp 1.80 ast/game thank goodness jp is always swinging the ball while cat hogs it. cat 4.23 reb/game jp 7.14 reb/game obvious advantage to jp. however, saying cat won't rebound when he's avg. 4.23 is wrong. now the shooting cat 42.5% jp 39.9% cat 84.6% ft jp 77.3% ft cat 31.5% 3pt jp 25.0% 3pt jp makes cat look like steve kerr on 3's. and as far as locking down, who burns cat all day long?? no one. cat is almost never beat off the dribble. jp may not be either but saying cat doesn't/can't play D is unbelievably ignorant i think. cat held kobe to 5/21, jrich to 8/26, and split time on tmac when he went like 10/28. also jp just got used by harpring in utah game 1, while cuttino held him in check for utah game 2.
Tell it to the Phoenix Suns, who won on a tough shot at the buzzer by MeBury after Cat clanked 2 free throws in the last few seconds. Also, our rebounding with Posey at the 2 does not suffer at all...Tmo is playing great at the 3, and is a far better passer then Mobes anyway. DD
my thoughts, i took time to sit back and appreciate what we have in Mobley. The guy is pretty cheap, and what I like about him is that he will make a clutch shot every so often. In the end, I think we should keep him. As for Glen Rice, the guy is a piece of crap. Why rely on him for anything. I find it surprising that many on this board think he can be the difference. the guy should stay on IR. He is not god at anything anymore. He does not shoot the three as consistent as I would like, and he NEVER hits big shots in 4th quarters. and His defense sucks. He is too slow to drive to the hole these days. He sucks.
Posey at the 2 just doesn't work. I think some people on this board seriously overestimate the offensive abilities of the players we have. Francis and Yao can score. Great. But between them, even if you get Yao the ball more, that's what... maybe 40 points? Trade Mobley, and we'll lack a single consistent scoring threat who can shoot the 3 pointer. If Boki had already become what his potential promises... sure, go ahead and do it. But he's just potential right now. Moochie's inconsistent, Morris doesn't seem to have true NBA 3 point range, Rice is hurt too often and can't playe enough minutes. If you trade Mobley, you'd better find another shooter if you want to have a chance this year at the playoffs. I'm not the world's biggest Mobley fan. But I'd like to keep him around as a 6th man for the future. And now, he's a player we need.
I'm curious about who exactly you all want in a trade involving Mobley? Obviously not a center, I hope you're not wanting Miller to play PG with Steve as SG. That won't work. A PF? The only one I'd want is Brand, and if we have to lose a SG to have him, when we already have 2 decent ones, that doesn't sound too great. We're already weak in SF position, and if we lost Cat to get a 4 then our SG position would be weak as well. The only position I could see a great need in is 3. What 3 would you want? Who's on the block? Brian Grant...hell no, Eddie Jones...No improvement...Spree...I like his game, but there aren't enough touches to go around, why would he want to defer more than Cat? Who else? The problem is not Cat. Maybe his attitude needs to change, or maybe Rudy needs to run an offense suitable for our players. It's not like we're running our offense through Yao every play (which we should), but Rudy should either tell Steve and Cat themselves or get someone they actually respect (Calvin, Big O AGAIN, etc.) to tell them they'd be better off doing so. I know they both want to win, but they also want to feel really involved, so Rudy has to find that balance. Even in big wins like the last one against LA, our offensive gameplan was the same as when we lose, just Steve was going crazy on his ISOs. I still believe Rudy is the problem....Sorry...
tozai: I'll agree with most of what you say, except for one thing. A coach doesn't need to make Cuttino feel like he's involved. Cuttino's a good enough player that he could have a role on any team in the NBA. On a Yao-dominated team, he'd still have a role. However, given how he seems to treat Yao, that role wouldn't be enough for him. It's not the coaches responsibility to make players with bad attitudes feel involved. Cuttino needs to deal with the fact that he's not a franchise player... and that he can either fit in with the system, or enjoy the bench and the trading block.
haven-Mo Taylor isn't an extra offensive weapon? I can tell you he's not on this team for his rebounding. C'mon now, offensive players aren't the problem on this team-offense efficiency is. If we were Detroit, with Rip Hamilton and a bunch of bench players, I'd agree with you. But- -Francis scores 20 a game with ease, and could probably put up 25 a game if he wanted to do so. -You can count on one hand the number of better offensive centers than Ming. -Griffin and Mo are splitting time, but are combining for upper teens fairly consistently. -Posey scored 15 a game as the #1 option (w/Juwan Howard) in Denver. If we got in the open court, he's a double digit scorer And it's not like we're giving Cuttino away- look at the 4 guys Clutch hinted as possible targets of the Rockets: Elton Brand, Andre Miller, Eddie Jones, and Brian Grant. Brand is a hoss in the post. Miller scores 15 a game and creates buckets for others. Jones can score in the upper teens. The only one that's not a real offensive weapon is Brian Grant. tozai-Explain to me why Miller and Francis "won't work". Because Francis "wants to be a PG?" Because Francis and Mobley are best friends, and Francis will cry and pout like a girl if Cuttino is traded? Because a similar strategy helped a Philly team with a lot less talent get to the Finals?
IMO, at this time, getting rid of Mobley is not a wise move. If he were to get traded, and with Rice already being out, we have no outside shooting, with Francis being the exception. This team right now is in dire need of someone who is an outside threat. I like Posey, but is shooting is poor, confirming alot of our fears when the trade was made. I don't think this team can rely on Francis as its only outside scoring threat.
Let's see, the Grizz want Miller but the Magic aren't sold on Swift. West, reportedly, has always liked Cat. Grizz want Dunleavy but Warriors don't want Gooden, but want to dump Dampier or Foyal. Rox supposedly like Pau. Somewhere is there a serious, realistic for all 4-way deal to be made?
