Alberto Gonzales Sets the Record Straight on Surveillance

Sen. Feingold on the Gonzales' testimony

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/26336

 

I like firedoglake's commentary on this development-


Well, look who has had to resort to political blackmail to protect his boss's ass:

Congressional sources said Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove has threatened to blacklist any Republican who votes against the president. The sources said the blacklist would mean a halt in any White House political or financial support of senators running for re-election in November.

"It's hardball all the way," a senior GOP congressional aide said.


The fact that some GOP aide is talking about Rove's tactics while they are still ongoing says to me that some folks in the party aren't happy about being pushed around by Karl. Or being told what they ought to think or do in terms of the Constitution -- by a fellow who clearly doesn't care one bit for protecting it, since his sole interest seems to be shutting down any potential for impeachment. Ends justifies the means, much?


The sources said the administration has been alarmed over the damage that could result from the Senate hearings, which began on Monday, Feb. 6. They said the defection of even a handful of Republican committee members could result in a determination that the president violated the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Such a determination could lead to impeachment proceedings.

Over the last few weeks, Mr. Rove has been calling in virtually every Republican on the Senate committee as well as the leadership in Congress. The sources said Mr. Rove's message has been that a vote against Mr. Bush would destroy GOP prospects in congressional elections.

So, let's see: the Republican Party stands for (a) the Constitution, the nation and its principles or (b) whatever Karl Rove tells them to stand for, because they are big wimpy babies who aren't allowed to think for themselves and who pee in their pants every time Karl says jump? You choose.

Here's what I know about national security -- you paint it as a political issue, you weaken the nation as a whole. because you split the nation in half as people take sides on an issue where we should all be united. Why does Karl Rove want to help the terrorists by tearing the nation in two?

Guess Rove's "win at all costs and protect the boss" strategy means he doesn't give a rat's ass about the safety of the country -- or the long-term health and principles of the Republican party, for that matter. Isn't it time someone in the media started asking about this?

How's that political blackmail working for you now that your own side is outing your dirty tactics directly to the media, Karl?

Looks to me like a whole lot of GOP folks on the Hill are pulling back the curtain on the once powerful Oz, and letting the politicos in Washington get a gander at the smarm-merchant behind the curtain. Tough to maintain that veneer of power when no one respects your heavy-handed tactics any longer. Here's hoping.

(Photo via Bush's Brain. Hat tip to reader Stacyb for the article link.)

UPDATE: I meant to also point out the fact that Rove is more than willing to screw the party to save Bush. Witness the willingness to withdraw any party aid to people who don't do Karl's bidding. Screw the party and any re-election plans for those folks -- Karl's revenge is more important. Whatta team player.


http://firedoglake.blogspot.com/

 

Since when can't a U.S citizen be involved in terrorist activities? What about Jose Padilla? If some known terrorist is communicating with someone in the U.S we need to know about it.

Do you really think the U.S government gives a crap about what you and your wife talk about? Or you and your doctor, lawyer, etc.

If you're not involved in terrorist activities this isn't affecting you at all.

 

So by that logic, Gonzales should testify under oath. He has nothing to hide because what the president has done is perfectly legal, right?

 

You sure about that?

The point is they are required to get a court order to justify why they are surveiling a "US person".

BTW, this is the reason Jorge won't answer my simple question...

 

HO HO HO!!

The GOP is shaking in it's collective boots!! Can you say "DeLaying" tactics? Alberto's "testimony" was the most incredulous, dim-witted and evasive bit of chicanery I have heard since Ronnie-"I don't recall that"-Reagan and Ollie North-of-the-truth last disgraced The Hill.

Republican leadership:

OWNED by the Constitution.




Did that sound TJ enough to translate to his space-time dimension?



You would have to be the most partisan, soulless, bottom-feeding shill to even think that the Gonzalez testimony was nothing but a farce...Not only a farce, but a poor excuse for LYING--at least be original!

Americans should turn off Survivor for a couple of minutes and focus on the fact that GOP control of the Senate allowed him to come before the Senate AND NOT BE SWORN IN--he can say whatever he wants without perjuring himself--amazing.

More troubling to me is that the Senate Democrats just played along instead of using their opposition to make this a national issue NOW, right NOW.

 

One day in the not so distant future the American government will round up (that means arrest) political dissidents (that means those they don't like) and place them in federal detention centers... They will be republicans, conservatives, democrats, liberals, middle class, ethnic groups, religious 'zealots' etc etc etc.

This is my guess based upon our present course.
I think every American ought to have at least one chance at complaining on an internet message board before that happens...

I feel stupid (go ahead and say it) for pulling out the Germany card, BUT- how much have you read about the history of the fall of the German Republic prior to 1940?

I don't have a clue if there is anything to be worried about, but I hate making the same mistake twice. And I also hate being dumbed down by media...

So here is a really strange read by a Baptist Pastor who most would call an ultra-right wing conservative Christian- Rev. Chuck Baldwin-- Thought this was worth at least thinking about-

ARE WE WITNESSING THE RISE OF THE FOURTH REICH?


By Pastor Chuck Baldwin
February 7, 2006
NewsWithViews.com
Without a doubt, comparisons to Hitler have been overdone. It seems that when a writer disagrees with the policies of a sitting president, be he Republican or Democrat, there exists a ubiquitous temptation to compare him with the ignoble German leader. Some will no doubt charge this author with having succumbed to this temptation. Perhaps I have.
However, as a student of both the Bible and history, I believe we in America are living in times that are eerily reminiscent of the days leading up to the rise of the Third Reich. If after reviewing this thesis, the reader wants to dismiss its conclusions as insipid and irrelevant, he or she is certainly free to do so.
On the other hand, it would do the reader good to heed the words of George Santayana who said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." If America is truly flirting with any semblance of the fallacious and fallen Reich (which I believe it is), it is incumbent upon each and every true American (especially Christians) to renounce, reject, and repudiate such flirtations as early and as vociferously as possible!
There are many facets and aspects of the Third Reich which could and should be analyzed. For the purpose of this column, however, I want to focus on the attitude and actions of the ministers and churches of Germany at the time of Hitler's rise.
My focus upon the German church is predicated upon the fact that as a Christian pastor (I have been the pastor of an Independent Baptist Church for more than 30 years), it is my studied opinion that any western nation will rise or fall according to the attitudes and actions of its Christian leaders and churches. Scripture says, "Judgment must begin at the house of God." Therefore, while any nation might survive corrupt politicians, greedy merchants, and sinful citizens, it cannot survive cowardly, compromising churches! As the churches go, so goes the country!
In the case of Nazi Germany, it was the German churches first and foremost that failed their country. It was the churches that provided Hitler with moral and spiritual cover. It was the ministers and churches that allowed Hitler to seduce the nation. Some ministers were no doubt deceived themselves. Many others, like Adam, partook of the forbidden fruit with their eyes wide open. Either way, without the help and assistance of Germany's churches, the Nazi Party could never have become such a horrible leviathan. Therefore, let's examine the attitudes and actions of Germany's ministers and churches and compare them to America's ministers and churches today to see if there is any similarity.
As we delve into this material, I want to strongly recommend that the reader purchase and devour a book to which I will repeatedly refer. The book is entitled, "Hitler's Cross." It is written by Erwin Lutzer and published by Moody Press. The book is absolutely phenomenal! If you do not read any other book this year (beside the Bible), read "Hitler's Cross."
Now, let's examine the evidence.
It is a fact that when Adolph Hitler began his ascent to power, many, if not most, of Germany's Christians believed he was an answer to their prayers. Lutzer says many Christians replaced pictures of Christ in their homes with pictures of Hitler. They truly believed Hitler was "God's man" for Germany. They believed that to resist Hitler was to resist God. And why not?
After all, Hitler revived Germany's collapsed economy. He eradicated the shame of Germany's defeat in WWI by reclaiming the Rhineland. He gave generous vacations to the German people. He created numerous trade schools that trained and equipped Germany's workers. Thus, almost overnight, Germany's vast unskilled labor force was replaced with highly skilled workers. In fact, under Hitler, Germany had virtually no unemployment. Furthermore, Hitler brought crime under control. He built freeways and highways that were the envy of Europe. He literally brought the German people out of poverty and despair and made them a great and proud people once again. As a result, the German people, including German Christians, loved him!
Unfortunately, as Hitler was building Germany's economy and strengthening its military, he was also taking away the rights and liberties of the German people. Remember, Germany was a republic before Hitler came along. The principles of individual freedom and constitutional government were at one time precious to Germans. However, most German people were willing to gladly trade their liberty and freedoms for Hitler's promise of security and strength. It was a bad trade then. It is a bad trade now!
Lutzer documents the fact that at the time of Hitler's rise, there were some 14,000 evangelical churches in Germany. To win the support of these churches, Hitler literally wrapped himself and the Nazi Party in the Cross of Jesus Christ. Even today, one can view photos from Nazi parades showing the Cross of Christ highlighted in the heart of the Nazi Swastika.
In short order, Germany's pastors and churches were convinced that the Nazi Party was God's party and Hitler was God's man. By the time Hitler consolidated power and became Germany's Fuhrer, the Nazi Swastika was displayed proudly on the walls and halls of Germany's churches, both Catholic and Protestant.
Germany's pastors often preached sermons supporting Hitler and the Nazi Party. They told their congregants that to support any other party or any other potential leader was to "fight against God." Very soon, congregants who refused to swear loyalty to Hitler were denied last rites and Holy Communion by Catholic priests, while Protestant pastors excommunicated such members. Romans chapter 13 was often quoted from Germany's pulpits as scriptural justification for demanding loyalty to Hitler.
Even the famous Canadian pastor, Oswald J. Smith (Pastor of the People's Church in Toronto), was taken with Hitler. In 1936 Smith wrote, "What, you ask is the real attitude of the German people toward Hitler? There is but one answer. They love him. Yes, from the highest to the lowest, children and parents, old and young alike, they love their new leader. They trust him to a man.
"What about your elections? I asked. 'We don't want another party. We are satisfied with Hitler.' And that feeling exists everywhere. Every true Christian is for Hitler. I know, for it was from the Christians I got most of my information, and right or wrong, they endorse Adolph Hitler." (Source: "Hitler's Cross" by Erwin Lutzer, pp. 109, 110)
One German pastor, Julius Leutherser gushed, "Christ has come to us through Hitler. [T]hrough his honesty, his faith and his idealism, the Redeemer found us." (Source "Hitler's Cross" by Lutzer, p. 101)
Lutzer writes on page 102 of his book, "n Hitler's day being a good Christian involved being a good German nationalist. God and country were practically one and the same."
Germany's Christians forgot that Christ's kingdom "is not of this world." Their desire to restore Germany's greatness and their patriotism somehow dwarfed their commitment to Christ and their fidelity to republican principles. Accordingly, their trust in God was supplanted with trust in Hitler, and their allegiance to principles of freedom was replaced with allegiance to the Nazi Party.
Of course, Hitler knew exactly what he was doing. He knew he needed the support of Germany's churches and pastors and he played the role of Christian leader magnificently. Privately, however, he despised Germany's clergymen. He said, "The parsons will dig their own graves. They will betray their God to us. They will betray anything for the sake of their miserable jobs and incomes." How right he was!
Out of 14,000 German ministers, all but 800 gave Hitler their unequivocal and unflinching loyalty. Among the 800 was the great Christian patriot Dietrich Bonhoeffer who was later assassinated by Hitler's henchmen. Virtually all of the 800 courageous pastors who refused to support Hitler were sent to concentration camps.
What would have happened had 10,000 ministers in Germany resisted Hitler? What would have happened if 10,000 ministers would have refused to compromise their loyalty to Jesus Christ, their commitment to republican principles, and their devotion to sacred duty? What would have happened if 10,000 Christian ministers had not allowed the National Socialist Party to supplant their loyalty to God's Word?
It seems clear to me that the attitudes and actions of Nazi Germany's ministers and churches are being repeated in the United States today. To a large degree, Evangelicals have wrapped the Cross of Christ in the banner of the Republican Party. They quote Romans chapter 13 to justify their unflinching, yes, even blind support for President Bush. They are willing to surrender their freedoms and liberties so that President Bush might protect them. Pictures of the president almost universally line the halls and walls of our churches, Christian schools, and pastors' offices. They castigate and denigrate in the most caustic terms anyone who dares to challenge or even question President Bush. They are willing to let the president lead them into multiple wars, even wars of aggression, based solely on Bush's word. They refuse to hold the president accountable to the principles of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. It seems to me that President Bush has taken on the aura of an American Fuhrer in the minds of many Evangelicals.

Just how far are Evangelicals willing to allow Bush to go? They already support unbridled spying on American citizens. They have gladly surrendered their Fourth Amendment rights. Would they be willing to support the imprisonment of fellow Christians who don't support Bush if the Department of Homeland Security ordered it? I believe many would. And if so, how is that different from the attitudes of Christians in Nazi Germany?

Again, readers may dismiss my observations as inane if they want to. However, please notice that the focus of this column was not so much on Hitler but on the attitudes and actions of Germany's ministers and churches.
If the reader can honestly and objectively look at the history of Germany's ministers and churches and see no similarity to the attitudes and actions of America's ministers and churches today, so be it. To me, however, the similarities are striking!
© 2006 Chuck Baldwin - All Rights Reserved

link

 

Ach ya Mein Fruende!



please...leave this country now, you aren't allowed to play anymore--let the adults discuss the Constitution. You can give up your rights, I'm not giving up mine.

 

If they were only tapping terrorism suspects then what is the big deal with getting a secret warrant that they can apply for up to three days after the fact?

 

Nobody wants to stop the U.S. govt. from spying on terrorists even if they are American citizens. Please read it again carefully. NOBODY wants to stop the U.S. govt. from spying and eavesdropping on terrorists even if they are American citizens.

That is not what this is about.

What many believe is that the govt. should spy on terrorists, but they should go through checks and balances just our U.S. constitution mandates as the law of the land.

I am not involved in terrorism at all, and it is affecting me. I don't like having my freedoms revoked. Maybe it doesn't bother you, but I believe in our constitution, and I would like my freedoms protected. The only thing that protects us from losing these freedoms is checks and balances by one court. That court is the FISA court.

Democrats and those opposed to this eavesdropping program all believe that we should be wiretapping terrorists. But most folks understand that can be done without breaking the law.

 

BINGO!

 

You might want to learn a little about American history. Specifically, J. Edgar Hoover and all the fun things he did.

 

That was then. This is now. Hoover is dead and our intelligence agencies are quite different nowadays.

 

i sure would love to know how far this wiretapping goes, (ie) political enemies ?

 

You're right.

They are better funded, better equipped, and able to get deeper into your business than you could possibly imagine.

I have a family friend that was in the CIA in the 80's. I asked him about the stuff that was in that movie Enemy of the State when it came out.
His answer was "You don't want to know..."

 

So based on that, checks and balances are no longer needed? There could never be another people in our government who would abuse unchecked power?

 

Please read some American History and the History of the U.S. constitution. Please read about what the bill of rights means and why it was put into place.

The reason why we have a bill of rights is to protect EVERY citizen from the govt.

If you can explain why you believe that not EVERY citizen needs to be protected from the govt. I would be happy to listen. And if you want to start a write-in campaign to congress asking them to cancell out the bill of rights you may do that as well.

The bill of rights is in the constitution not to protect just those that have illegal evidence on them, but every person. We all get those protections.

 

Hoover is a BIG part of the reason that we created the FISA court and restricted domestic wiretapping.

And you have repeatedly ignored a simple question:

Why is it too much to ask for the president to obey the law by getting a secret warrant up to three days after the fact?