Alabama's Top Judge Defiant on Commandments' Display

That's what I'm thinking. I don't know, but I feel like sometimes you can see people on TV and kind of tell if they are a good person or not. This guy is not a good person.

 

don't you love that bad JUST FOR MEN dye job? His SKULL is dyed brown in the front under his thin hair.

 

I should say I either saw on TV or saw an online source that a poll showed 77% favored leaving it in the capitol, but only about half felt the state should pay any fine, with half saying he should pay it himself.

It would have been from MSNBC, Fox, CNN, or the NYT, most likely, if I used it.

 

I'd go looking for it, but there will be a new one within two days, so I'll wait it out.

 

Bill Mahr mentioned this the other night and, frankly, I hadn't really even considered it, but had anyone else noticed that only two of the commandments are actually laws in America???

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Freedome of religion pretty much craps this one out.

2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vein.

Ok, no swearing. Polite but not illegal.

3. Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.

The original sabbath was Saturday, but history aside, still not a law.

4. Honor thy father and mother.

A GREAT (depending on your parents) idea but certainly not a law.

5. Thou shalt not kill.

Ok, that one's a law.

6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Again, a good idea but not a law or half of America would be in prison.

7. Thou shalt not steal.

Another law.

8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

This one is questionable. In a court of law, that would be contempt or possibly even fraud. But, just lying in everyday circumstances about your neighbor - not a crime.

9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife.

Just about every male on the planet would be in jail if this were the case. The recent Jessica Simpson thread in the Hangout is proof of that.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is thy neighbors.

I get it. Don't lust after the rich neighbor. Again, that condemns about half of us to jail if enforced.

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So, 2 1/2 qualify as law in America. As far as I can tell, you could MAYBE only add the adultery one to the list if you were talking about all of American history and that was only in SOME communites, not the country as a whole.

Seems a bit of a reach to call these the basis for law in America.

 

Judeo/Christian ethics and morals are CERTAINLY the basis for law and morality in America, even if a large percentage of our Founding Fathers were not Christian.

To deny this is historical revisionism.

 

actually, it's English Common Law from circa 1500 forward




the Ten Commandments have little to do with our laws




Jeff, the "false witness" in the Old Testament was not merely lying. It WAS a lying under oath in a circumstance in which testimony was taken. In our system it would be perjury or false swearing, which also requires some monetary or other stake in a proceeding.


so it would be kill, steal, falsely swear - all crimes today. that's 30%. People who don't even believe in God believe those are good laws, so you could hardly ascribe those to godliness. They are rational controls in civilization, irrespective of God.

 

Please, what is the basis for English Common Law? It is the Catholic and Anglican Church.

 

I know you think that is right, but it's not. English Common Law evolved from the 1200s forward, springing forth from the Magna Carta in 1215, which was the basis for the power sharing that would evolve into a bicameral legislature. It is this early movement in the direction of power sharing which birthed democracy centuries later.

You really think any church is going to have a presumption of innocence? a right to trial by a jury of peers? freedom of religion?


The Church was in all aspects of life prior to about 1600, but the traditions of English common law sprung up in spite of religious overbearance, not from it.

 

Do unto others....

That is the basis of English Common Law. The importance of individual rights is a result of the belief in an individual soul being important (imo).

 

soul is a joint rolled in toilet paper.

 

They should probably take down all statues of the goddess Themis from courtrooms around the country as well. Don't want to have state sponsored religion. Should probably stop swearing in witnesses as well, or at least change the manner in which it is done.

 

I think the witness should play high five with the Bible, like in Airplane. And Themis is a babe... she should stay up, unless the judge would rather have a velvet wall hanging.

But I agree with your tone... people in our culture should stop practicing idolatry. They should also stop blending religion and government. I agree... great point.

 

There is a difference between intent and content. In this case, most of our laws were based on the "do unto others" rule you mentioned which of course isn't a commandment but based on the spirit or ideology therin.

Thing is, this isn't unique to Chrisitanity or Judiasm. Religions and even societies wholly separate from that branch of religious faith adopted similar ideas LONG before Jesus was born.

I certainly agree that the spirit of law in America had its roots in the belief systems of our forefathers but it also had strong basis in common sense, something we are fortunate or forefathers seemed to have in great abundance.

Of course beliefs influenced them, but they were clearly not the sole basis for law in America. If that were true, freedom of religion would never have made it into the constitution.

 

I understand your logic, and Friendly Fan's logic, completely. I think we are approaching this issue from slightly different angles, and in a way we are all correct.

I am just bothered by the 20th century interpretation our courts have bestowed upon the 1st amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Placing a replica of the 10 Commandments in front of a court house certainly does not constitute making a law respecting an establishment of religion. Nobody is required to give homage to this statue, nor is anybody required to take any oath toward Christianity in relation to the statue.

This is a statue dedicated to history, and since we can all agree that at least SOME of our current morality is derived from Judeo-Christian values, the statue is wholely appropriate in my estimation.

On the other hand, forcing the removal of the statue absolutely violates the notion that "government shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof" religion.

Of course, this conflict should have been cleared up by turning to the 10th amendment, which states-
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

However, the 10th amendment was ignored long ago, and should be either enforced or repealed immediately.

I just wish that we were consistent with our rulings regarding God in our culture. If the statue must go, then we should remove Bibles from our courthouses, Christmas trees from our White House lawn, and "In God We Trust" from all of our money.

 

I agree completely. And I'd suggest starting with the bibles in the courthouses. There is a ridiculous double-standard there with regard to this ten commandments thing. Christmas trees have become virtually non-secular, but they don't need to be on the lawn of a White House that should represent all Americans. The president should have whatever he or she wants in the private residence, but the White House is the peoples' house. And "In God We Trust" is pretty much non-secular as well, but I'd be happy to see it removed from our money. The bibles in the courthouse though are in direct conflict with separation of Church and State and with the recent court decision.

 

I think, for me, it is a question of equity.

If this were a monument to the Koran or to the Four Noble Truths in Buddhism, it would never have been allowed to be made in the first place. And those are other major religions. That doesn't account for paganism or wicca or Native American beliefs.

Personally, I don't have a problem if you want a small public display. If you want to keep the commandments on your desk or on the wall of your office, go for it. I don't see anything wrong with that.

However, placing a giant monument to them while saying you would exclude the monuments of other religions on the basis that our forefathers based the laws of the US on the commandments is really a statement that Christianity is the religion of America and all others are not.

I'm certainly not denying him his beliefs. I just don't think that they require a granite monument in a government building. If he wants that, why not just put it in his front yard?