Josh Smith can say anything he wants, but he's clearly looking for the max. He already turned down Atlanta's extension offer of $15mm/year. Lebron worked out of the post at times last year. There's a significant difference between the bodies of a 6'10, 265 lb Jefferson and a 7', 222 lb Dmo. What's your goal? If you want the Rockets to be a pretender, then fine. Your plan works. We'd make it to the 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs, but you need to realize that a healthy Miami team would be better than us in every single way. We need to make a change that would give us a realistic chance at beating athletic, fast paced teams, and that means getting an offensive post threat to take advantage of their defensive vulnerabilities. I'm actually hoping that Memphis makes it to the finals. I would love to see Bosh try to guard Gasol or Zbo. Absolutely wrong. Fantastic. Jefferson has an elite post game. If defenses refuse to double, I have no problem with Jefferson taking the shot himself. Like I said before, Jefferson would improve our defense simply b/c he takes up so much space and is a good rebounder. That's actually a big deal and you seem intent on ignoring it.
Smith is not Bosh in any form. Actually Jefferson is closer in that he has a more consistent mid range jumpshot. But neither is really close. Play DMO instead of Jefferson. Really... seriously? Al jeff doesn't command a double team? If Al doesn't than no low post player does. He is clearly one of the best low post scorer in the league. Yes his defense is lacking but you are not being real if you think DMO is just as good. Not true at all. You can't back this guy up and he has length to block more shots than any of our 4's. Okay maybe not T Jones. But I think with Asik he will block more as a weakside blocker. I am not saying Jefferson is a better choice for this team than Smith. I am just saying he might be. Clearly Smith is more athletic and although as not as much as some would suggest he is a better defender. I say that because those 2 extra rebounds matter. But Al is a much better low post player on or near the level of Zach and he has a better midrange shot closer to Bosh than Smith. But the biggest reason I'd consider him is because I think he might be a better fit. I will admit I am not sure of that but the other factor is he can play back up center and give us an upgrade there too. Smith can't. Yes there are factors that clearly favor Smith, speed, playmaking, but I am just not convinced they will help as much are as needed as much. They didn't seem to help ATL. It's still a question ? and nothing you have said convinces me it still shouldn't be a question.
Wait a minute. I thought I got the point. I made the same point in the post you were quoting. I don't want to gut the team. Also, people keep saying Al is lazy on defense. Is he really lazy, or just physically limited from injuries?? He seemed like a warrior to me, and I watched a lot of Jazz games. Millsap would struggle to get double digits in points, while Jefferson put in 20-10 in games down the stretch with next to NO help from one of the weakest backcourts in the league. I said it before, but he just seems like a warrior. That said, I still don't know if Al's the perfect power forward for us. I really like the stretch 4 that can hit the three. But there's no perfect player available out there.
Gordon Hayward is the only player on the Jazz roster I want to be on the Rockets. That guy is underrated even by Jazz fans. He's one of those few 6-9 guys who are quick enough to guard speedy waterbug PGs. His versatility on D to cover multiple positions is what the Rockets need around Harden. The Jazz have looked their best this season in games where Hayward has been the main playmaker, ie psuedo point guard due to injuries. In an out of the box move he'd be a massive upgrade at PG for the Rockets, to the overall team.
Absolutely! That's it. I agree with you Oakdogg there is no perfect player out there. We got to at least take a look at those available. Al Jefferson seems like a warrior to me also. I hated the way he played against us. He was a mismatch every time. And I look at the teams that give Miami the most fits. The teams with bigs. We were one of those teams this year with Asik. Imagine us with Asik and Jefferson. Skinny Bosh would be crying. Like you I prefer a stretch 4. But I don't want a stretch 4 like Novak. I want someone that can rebound and where are those guys. Love ain't going nowhere. Maybe Ilyasova might be available. After that DMo might be are best bet and we already got him. I guess we could trade back for Morris. Anyway I love intelligent posters who come to their own conclusions.
Okay I've been looking at video for a while now and Jefferson's highlights aren't as great as Josh Smith but they are more transferable to our team imo. But you be the judge. <iframe width="400" height="250" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dJOy5oaxHdw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="400" height="250" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3bfHCd-VFts" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Yeah I know these aren't the players most want but Howard is probably not coming nor CP3 or Kevin Love so these are what we have to work with. By the way I have watched a lot of video on both players and these games are representative of offensive players you get from both of them. The problem I have with Smith is he pretty much scores in only two ways. Fast break attacking the rim and 3 point shooting and the problem with his 3 point shooting is it is a little below average at best and pathetic under pressure. Almost all of his best games are when he shoots threes at high clip. Unfortunately he doesn't do that often enough. He does have a low post game against small forwards but that means we would have to have a bigger team on the floor to make the other teams small forward guard him. Ain't gonna happen with our squad. He doesn't have a consistent midrange shot and passes it up unless he is wide open. He is not a good compliment to Asik and definitely for Howard IMO. On the other hand Jefferson has a solid midrange game and a real low post game maybe even better than Zach in the sense he is more physical. Still looking at a lot of video. I like Hickson because I think the price will be right and he is a more team player and a great rebounder but he is not an enforcer or shot intimidator. He is young and seems to have a great attitude. Still this cap space is a one shot deal and you want an asset that is going to contribute for a while and maybe even tradeable if you want to move in a different direction. Not sure you get that with Hickson. The same goes for Milsap but he does intrigue me because he is a good shooter although his 3 pt percentage is misleading because he shoots so few. My problem with him is he is undersized and not as good a rebounder as the others. David West is just too old plus him and Kenyon Martin are always on the verge of self destructing. So not crazy about them.
Terrible defender. Mediocre offensive player. Costs more than Millsap who is much better. Waste of money. Waste of a thread.
I really don't care for Jefferson. He really falls in love with that jump shot too often for my liking and as a result doesn't get to the line as much as I'd like. Not an efficient scorer and really a below average defender. The kind of player that puts up stats on mediocre teams but isn't a big dog on a good team. At least Josh Smith can play some defense.
asik needs help on defense. al will help with rebounding but too lazy to play defense. also wont fit our fast style. the starting pf should be able to run the floor well
That's an intelligent argument. It's hard watching youtube videos to know how bad he is defensively. His not great a defensive pnr player just because he is slow but it seems 1 on 1 he is a pretty good defender. I want to watch more footage of him playing defense but from what I can see he is not lazy at all. He is just a really big guy that is slow. Still he is explosive and you can't move him around.
We need a low-scoring big PF inside, so I don't care how bad Al Jefferson's defense is. As long as he makes points and grabs rebounds. Just like ZBo does. Asik (or Howard?) will do the rest on the defensive side. LaMarcus Aldridge is a pipe dream, so I'll take Jefferson. If McHale stays he might as well get someone he knows from his days in Minny.
The thing about Jefferson...is that he's actually not that great a scorer to begin with. He shys away from contact ( he gets 3 foul shots a game, an utterly embarassing total for a guy who's supposed to bang in the paint a lot), and takes a lot of mid-range jumpers. 16 points to score 18 shots isn't that impressive, it's pretty close to Rudy Gay.
He may not be great but he's pretty damn good. And the free throw shooting is misleading. Teams avoid fouling Jefferson because he shoots 75%. Josh Smith went to the line 100 more times but he shot 52% and actually made one less free throw than Jefferson. Howard fta's are much higher than both but he shoots 49%. Every coach in the league is telling there players to foul him when his close to the rim. It's a smart play fouling Howard and Smith and dumb play fouling Jefferson. I do agree he does shoot a lot of jumpshots but he has a decent midrange game so he should. He is a better rebounding PPat with a back to the basket game. He definitely has some flaws but when you consider how bad Howard and Smith are at the line, free throw shooting is not a really good argument against him Again he is not the best prospect but if you judge against are other options or even the option to wait another year he still has to be considered. That's all I'm saying. It's not comparing him to Howard either. it's considering him along side Asik instead of others like Josh smith, Milsap, West etc.. Plus he is a clutch player #17 in the league behind Irving, Paul, Durant,Melo.Harden,Kobe,Lebron, Westbrook,Curry, Parker, Crawford, Nowitzki, Jarret jack, Ellis and of those guys only Crawford shoots a higher FG% in those situations. I get if you have a chance to get Howard you take Howard and figure out how the pieces fit later. But I don't believe we will get Howard so what is plan b. I think Plan B should include us getting a PF. It seems most people want Josh Smith if Howard and CP3 are not available. I am not so sure about him and I keep watching film to change my mind. But it hasn't yet. I watched alot of Smith in the playoffs and I was not overly impressed. He is still an upgrade but more importantly is he an upgrade that fits this team. I am not sure about that. I think Jefferson's game fits us better and also gives us a back up center. Hickson can also do that to a lesser degree. I am sure Morey is doing his homework and part of that is checking out jefferson. In the end he will select who is best of those realistically available.
He would be a good low post presence on offense and can also hit those mid range J's but he's one of the worst pick & roll defenders in the league. Just gets beat and allow easy layups. Here's a small sample size of what he does on defense. Just focus on Jazz #25.. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Lns1nb7X-l0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
he's too slow. a top 5 offensive big, arguably top 3. but his defense is lacking. when he tries he can be a good post defender since he has a wide body, but we have asik for that. we need a more agile pf. having a starting pf and c that are slow will hurt the team more than help it, if you're trying to contend if morey cant get dwight than he should try to geta stretch 4. there's plenty of them as fa's or up for trades.
Money isn't the only issue there. He wants to join a winning team. Atlanta clearly doesnt have that and theyve been on the treadmill for god knows how long and will be there in the foreseeable future. Yes, Lebron improved his post game but its not like they went to the post very often in last year's POs. Another big body in the lane as an argument for better team defense is very poor. Which was exactly why I used Dmo in my example. You just dont throw big bodies out there to clog the lane because they will get taken out of the lane and be forced to play pick and roll D or rotate which Jefferson cannot do very well. Smith,on the other hand, is mobile and versatile enough to trap or close out better in such occasions. I admit that his post D is average but thats not what we need. We need an intimidator at the rim and someone who can help Asik once mismatches are created. That's exactly the question I wanted to ask you. lol. IMO, Jefferson will probably bring us maybe to the top 4-6 of the West but still not good enough to compete for the title. On the other hand, Smith, while probably still in the same bracket, will give us a better chance to beat upper echelon teams because of the mismatches he creates and what he offers on defense. For our team thats constructed exactly to play the pick and roll, I think thats pretty accurate. Harden and Lin, our primary ball handlers, are comfortable playing the pick and roll. Anyway, I have already admitted that Al Jeff is the superior offensive player - in fact he may be a better optionat the pick and roll than Smith because he can pop occasionally. My issue with him is really on the defensive end - which is again, our biggest hole. Have you seen Al Jeff play? He's a black hole and shrinks against post good defense. He might have the occasional WOW game where he puts up 20-15 stats but in most games, he puts up empty stats. There's a reason why Jazz fans hate him and prefer to see Favors and Kanter over his fat ass. And like I said, having a big body to clog the lane is just not enough on defense. We need another player who can anchor the defense to help Asik. Al Jeff's wide body isn't enough if he can't move his feet to defend the pick and roll and/or block shots when our guards fail on their assignments. Baskeball isn't as simple anymore. You dont expect teams to just run iso all day and drive recklessly. Pick and roll is probably the most used offensive set in the league right now and if Al Jeff can't guard that at all, why bother getting him because he clearly doesn't fix that problem of ours. Listen, I'm aware that the Rockets need a post presence on offense to change it up when we play teams that are good in transition defense. However, what we need more is a person that can defend bigger wings and PFs. I think you're underrating the importance of defense in our style of play. Our defense kickstarts our offense. Fast breaks are MOSTLY created through rebounds, blocks, and live turnovers - all of which Smith can help create, while Al Jeff can only rebound at a marginally better rate than Smith. I also feel that Smith is a better fit for us because he's also another player than can excel in our type of play. Al Jeff is more suited for the grind it our offense, imo. Ultimately, I'll be fine with either player as long as the price is right BUT given the chance that both are asking for a reasonable contract, I really prefer Morey to take Smith over Big Al. Kind of funny that Millsap has fallen off this conversation because I wouldve thought that he'd be want CF wanted because of the times he's killed us in the past.
Why is this thread only two stars?? Tons of good information about one of the top free agent candidates for the Rockets and other players he's compared against. I've learned stuff. Clutchfans is weird.
