[Al Jazeera] U.S. army chief authorized abusive tactics in Iraq

This is WAR. You don't go around giving people who are trying to kill you the benefit of the doubt. Mistakes happen in war.

Here is the real question: Why do you liberals insist that US soliders are using poor judgment in incarcerating terrorists? How can you possibly believe that you can think of a better way for this to be handled than the people who are on the ground, in the line of fire? I give our troops the benefit of the doubt. THEY HAVE EARNED IT by putting their life on the line.

 

Nobody is giving anyone a hard time for locking up terrorists. We are giving people a hard time for not following conventions, laws, and treaties signed by the U.S.

It is because I support the troops, that I am against torture. I can think of a better way than the people who are on the ground in charge of the situations where torture is used, because it doesn't work, and the majority of folks on the ground aren't doing this.

Why do you scoff at the brave troops who don't use torture, follow a higher moral code, and follow the Geneva convention by defending the dregs who taint their name and honor with techniques such as these?

 

I agree, just treat them as prisoners of war, what's wrong with that?

By the way poor judgement was used in the treatment of the prisoners but it wasn't made by our brave service personal, it was made by the administration that said we will not treat them as prisoners of war. The administration hung those who did that in Abu Grav out to dry. Why don't you defend them.

 

I was wondering if the liberals here would go through each of the 29 technniques at issue here and discuss under what circumstances, if any, would they allow each technique to be used.

 

look its not like these prisoners get a trial.... they are all guilty upon arrest.... some of these people must be innocent.... ....

plus i don't think the U.S should be in Iraq in the first place...all these innocent people would not being dying if the U.S did not go in there in the first place.... i know many will say saddam killed many....well yes he did...there are many screwed up countries though....wanna go to every one of em??...who has the right to interfere???...if you wanted to get rid of WMD...first get rid of the dirt in your own closet then go to someone else ...until then you are being a hypocrite!!!!!

 

Uh, no. There are no facts in the original article, just quotes from an ACLU lawyer. The ACLU's interpretation is presented. That's it.

 

Many charities need money, wanna give to every one of them? Just because you can't go after all the bad guys, doesn't mean you can't go after any of them.

 

StupidMoniker....


a charity...and invading a land with human lives at stake are two friggin different things....

anyway my point is that there are innocent individuals as well.... there are no trials..... just cause they got arrested means they are guilty!?...thats inhumane....strange how we can change our philosophical believes when its something very distant to ourselves... you guys hav'nt tasted war so you have no idea of its effects.... and i mean in your home country...not ....going abroad and being at war with someone in foreign lands.... thats not when your family is at risk...your future and your past is all effected when its happening at home.

 

They illustrate the same point. If you think it is the right thing to do, you can take action, even if you don't do it in every circumstance. I think that ousting Saddam and bringing Democracy to Iraq is the right thing. Just because there are other bad governments where we have not/will not intervene, that does not make going into Iraq less justifiable.

I never mentioned anything about people being held, so the rest of your post is not germane to my point, but I will address some of it anyway.

From this we can take that you are against all wars; you're a pacifist. I disagree with that philosophy because I think that wars can be just, and that the consequences of not going to war can be every bit as dire.

I don't think I can convice you that going to war in Iraq was the right thing to do, and I don't think you can convice me that it was wrong, so I will leave it at that.

 

StupidMoniker


i'm a Canadien... we're against all wars. ...though we still have to kiss the americans a$$ since our economy is based around you guys....

i'd say South Korea was/is a lot more dangerous than Iraq could had ever been....why not go there....i guess you know the answer....my point being that the U.S is building another arms race towards nuclear power...

 

But the question then becomes do you give to a charity that fights a special brand of athelete's foot that only affects non-Americans, or do you give money to a charity that aims to wipe out breast cancer.

Because Saddam is like the athelete's foot that affects only non-Americans. Meanwhile we had places like Sudan, Liberia, Pakistan, N. Korea that were doing far worse things, and cooperating with terrorists that were actually a threat to us.

 

If they aren't American citizens they don't deserve "due process." When was the last time insurgents AKA terrorists took hostages and made sure they stayed in line with the Geneva Convention? That's right, they don't. We didn't chop off anyone's head's and post it all over TV or raise their dead bodies onto a bridge and burn them... and we sure as crap don't ram car bombs into innocent crowds mutliple times a day. We took pictures of them naked and with leashes on and deprived them of sleep... BOO FREAKING HOO!

Some of you guys need to wake up and realize the world isn't all roses. If you aren't man enough to do what needs to be done to save lives then I thank God you're not in the position to make those decisions. You will never convince me that treating known terrorists or their "friends" with the same rights as American citizens is the right thing to do. Are some people wrongly accused and/or treated? Maybe, but for every one of those there are COUNTLESS lives saved from the information taken under said tactics. It's a game of numbers, and in my eyes our numbers are more important then theirs.

Your utopia will never exist, and it's about time you realize that.

 

There are many facts that are wrong here. According the Army's own report it wasn't just pictures of naked bodies. Prisoners were raped, and killed. The pictures we saw were only the ones that caused to yell boo freeking hoo. But far worse happened.

You are correct that we don't ram car bombs into innocent crowds. We shouldn't. We also shouldn't use Sddam's tactics of torture. Sadly we have.

As for American citizens only being given the due process, that doesn't address treating them as prisoners of war, which would also be acceptible.

Are you familiar with the U.S. declaration of independence? In it these words are written

The rights you claim are only due to American Citizens is not an idea that goes well with our declaration of independence. The inalienable rights are not given by the U.S. but by men's creator. If you don't believe in the U.S. declaration of independence, then that is your choice.

As far as the tactics used saving even one life, we don't know that that is true at all. We also don't know that if it is true there weren't other ways to get the information. Even worse it could be that our torture only fueld the drive and will of insurgents, and aided their resolved to carry out more attacks, and we actually lost lives as a result of those techniques.

If we are fighting for freedom, and democratic ideals we don't win that fight by abandoning those ideals.

 

I can't believe it. After all this time TJ, and the orginal apologists for torture on the bbs have come out of the closet again. What's next? Another Rush Limbaugh program comparing it all to fraternity initation cermonies?

 

Did some of the troops go too far? Yup, and they are being punished. Troops have gone too far in every war known to man, it's nothing new... you can't blame the Army or Government for the acts of a few individuals. Those actions cannot be compared to interrigation tactics, because there are not what was condoned. Either way the things that went on there are dwarfed when compared to the atrocities done to our troops and civilians there, so spair me the insurgent pity party.

If what happened there (interrogation tactics, not the criminal acts of individual soldiers) saved one American life, its worth it... if you don't have those views Canada would love to have you. I'm sorry but I will not appologize and act like an American life isn't worth it. Maybe I'm different then some Americans, but I view America as my family and I will do whatever it takes to protect my family from cowardly terrorists. If you don't view it like that then I'd hate to see how far you wouldn't go to protect your own family.

 

It's not a patriot off. If it was I think anyone who approves of torture would lose. As I mentioned the U.S. declaration of independence says that ALL men are born with certain 'inalienable' rights endowed by their CREATOR. I believe in that. That is American. It does not say that if you aren't American you aren't entitled to certain rights. That is the exact thing the founding fathers were trying to break free from. They didn't like being excluded from govt. decisions because they were in a colony or weren't artisocracy. They thought all men had those rights regardless of where they were from. If you don't like it, then you are welcome to go to Canada.

In addition if that torture saved one life in the short term but caused the resistence in Iraq to be prolonged and ended up costing thousands of other lives, then it wasn't worth it.

Further more if that torture saved one life, but cost the honor and ideals that the soldiers were fighting for, then it wasn't worth it. Better to die with honor and ideals intact than to live having shamed all of a nation its armed forces.

A few soldiers certainly crossed the line, but if the general in charge authorized it, then it goes beyond a few soldiers.