1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Tags:
  1. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    17,603
    Likes Received:
    9,053
    The reason they'd go after Melo is because Les wants a fast-paced, high-scoring offense that'll win regular season games. He doesn't give a crap about the playoffs or winning titles. Plus he figures Melo's a star and he and Harden would together would generate ticket sales and ratings.

    Butler makes no sense because he plays the same position as Harden. And neither he nor Griffin would be available anyway without either giving up Harden or trading away a bunch of future first rounders.

    I sincerely hope the Rockets strike out on all of these rumored moves. If they're not gonna sign 3 or 4 mid-tier free agents, then the best thing long-term IMO would be to do nothing and maintain cap flexibility and rebuild through the draft.
     
  2. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    27,724
    Likes Received:
    21,397
    Harden
    Butler
    Melo
    Ryno
    Horford

    Nice!
     
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,169
    Likes Received:
    112,803
    Alexander doesn't care about winning titles? Based on what?

    Jimmy Butler can play up to three positions, but it doesn't matter. It is unlikely the Bulls deal him and it won't be to the Rockets.

    The player to watch coming to the Rockets is Chris Bosh.
     
  4. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    20,060
    Likes Received:
    11,752
    Seems weird that Les would put his stamp of approval on a guy with red flags on his medical history.

    Usually we let our medical staff ruin a guy and then try to ship him out, not vice versa.
     
  5. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    28,000
    Likes Received:
    23,201
    Not even Chris Broussard thinks those are reliable sauces.
     
  6. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    I had never considered the Bosh angle but it opens up some interesting possibilities.

    You could use your cap space and then try and trade for Bosh, either in a sign and trade with Dmo or your leftover pieces.

    Maybe sign Conley and Barnes, then trade Ariza/ Beverley for Bosh.

    Conley
    Harden
    Barnes
    Bosh
    Capella

    You could do worse for sure.
     
  7. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    19,116
    Likes Received:
    20,867
    The reason why the Bosh angle has been mentioned is because no one knows if he'll ever play again. You essentially tie $20+ a year to a player with a health condition that can sideline him at any given time.
     
  8. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    17,603
    Likes Received:
    9,053
    Based on the fact that he seems content with avoiding sub-.500 records in the regular season than playoff success. He even said as much following their 41-41 finish this year.

    As for Chris Bosh, the Rockets would have to be insane to trade for him. He's got 3 more years left on his deal and a blood clot health scare that could prevent him from playing again.
     
  9. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,273
    Likes Received:
    12,994
    He's definitely proud of not having a losing record for years and years.

    But that doesn't mean he doesn't care about winning in the playoffs.

    Les' position of keeping a winning tradition seems to have just as much a chance to turn into a championship team as the opposite - "tanking" and building exclusively through the draft. Yes, you have teams playing and winning with lots of high lotto picks... in fact, its almost the only singular fact of every NBA champion ever, they have won with one of their own high/HOF type lotto picks. But a lot of those teams go through years and decades of losing and getting the picks wrong before finally getting them right.

    It'd almost be like arguing the Blazers aren't interested in the trophy long term because they didn't tank this year and instead overachieved.
     
  10. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    17,603
    Likes Received:
    9,053
    I'd argue that we now have 19 years of evidence that Les' approach does NOT have as much of a chance of producing a championship(or at least a contender) as any other. There's an inescapable reality Les needs to come to grips with. Every single team contending for a title right now in the postseason built a good chunk of its roster via the draft. Even in the case of the Cavs, they traded two #1 lottery picks(Wiggins and Bennett) for Kevin Love. Hell, even the Spurs who have been contending for nearly 2 decades built the entire foundation for their success with the #1 pick in the 1997 draft in Tim Duncan.

    Do teams get it wrong? Sure. The Warriors were awful for the majority of the post-Webber era(which spanned nearly 20 years) before they finally put this championship squad together. They took Joe Smith with the #1 pick in 1995(although in fairness that wasn't exactly a great draft). But they kept at it til they got it right. Same with a team like Dallas. They drafted the 3 J's in the early 90's which blew up in their faces(in part due to Toni Braxton of all people!), but they traded those guys away and received Finley and Nash in return who they then paired up with Dirk who they got, you guessed it, in the lottery. They then contended for the better part of a decade.
     
  11. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    5,649
    anyone else excited about the defensive potential of Capela and Horford?
     
  12. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,577
    Likes Received:
    35,648
    Nook, please explain why the Rockets would take a chance on Bosh considering his blood clot condition? Miami won't clear him, but the Rockets will?

    In terms of financials are you just saying Miami would trade Bosh/contract into Rockets cap space? (which of course would give Miami cap room to bring back Whiteside/Wade AND Deng/Johnson etc).

    I totally understand the Rockets interest in Bosh (pre-injury), but now it seems really risky to tie up cap room considering his condition.
     
  13. fallenphoenix

    fallenphoenix Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    9,821
    Likes Received:
    1,619
    we haven't seen a defensive frontcourt like that since... asik and howard!

    :(:eek:
     
  14. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2001
    Messages:
    23,376
    Likes Received:
    33,525
    Is there a chance his price is reduced? Maybe that's where the interest in him comes into play? I don't know, just throwing that idea out there.
     
  15. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2001
    Messages:
    23,376
    Likes Received:
    33,525
    I've heard that Horford has been playing out of position for years. If he's a more natural 4 that can play some 5, it might make sense. Horford is not a slasher, Capela is. Horford has a decent jumper, Capela doesn't. I don't think you'll have the same Asik/Howard offensive issues.


    Edit:

    This is from 2013, but it gives you an idea of what kind of player Horford is on offense:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Fantasma Negro

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    12,592
    Likes Received:
    10,877
    Uh wtf is this intentional hand tipping ****? Don't give Dwight any reason to opt in. While I don't believe this is a reliable source, I do believe Horford is our number one target but the Jimmy Butler and Carmelo thing is luda, we don't even have the assets to make that work
     
  17. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,577
    Likes Received:
    35,648
    There is no reduced price. If he keeps playing, he keeps playing on his current contract that has 3 more years at 25M/per on it. OR he retires and is retired (and his contract comes off the Heat books in Feb 2017).

    I guess he could retire (get his Miami salary in full, have his contract come off the Heat books in Feb 2017) and then "un-retire" and sign with Houston (at a reduced price)? Can you un-retire from a forced medical retirement? I don't know.
     
  18. craguin

    craguin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,899
    Likes Received:
    1,828
    Here's a more recent shot chart:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,273
    Likes Received:
    12,994
    Again, this is the part that is hard to deny, because factually, you go back and look at NBA champs, or even NBA Finals and Conference Finals teams, and as I noted they all have their own highly successful lotto pick at its core.

    That said, I don't think you can go from that to "tank" or along those lines directly.

    For one, you've got to at least play towards your teams capabilities. The alternative is the 76ers, which might actually work in the super long run, but the early returns aren't that promising. The rest is a bit luck of the draw and being where you are organizationally. And where the Rockets have been has been with really solid players that ultimately weren't the right really solid players.

    Francis - great player and athleticism, but not super conducive to winning player
    TMac - see above, but even better player, just not the leader to get it over the hump
    Yao - too injured
    Harden - tbd
    Dwight - we see how that's turning out

    The Rockets were VERY close to that point of being in a spot organizationally where they'd have to get worse, much, to get better. So close, in fact, that absent the Harden trade, it definitely would have happened. That first year of Harden, but with no Harden and with Jeremy Lamb instead. C'mon. But up until that point, and since, they've managed to get all-star, near MVP type players and you of course try and build around that to win.

    Moreover, I view Harden as that lotto pick of our own type. Yes, the Rockets didn't draft him, but he was still super super young when he got here, and not that MVP-esque player yet.

    On top of all that, its the NBA. Not exactly a league of parity. 19 years without a championship doesn't mean Les' approach doesn't work.

    To boil it down though... does Les prefer to win rather than lose, even if it is at least somewhat possible that winning isn't going deep in the playoff winning and might come at the expense of a different strategy that could yield championships down the road? Yes. Definitely. He's on record saying he's proud of the winning culture. Does that mean he's actively not as invested in winning championships or this approach won't work. I don't think so.

    I'd not be opposed to trading Harden sometime next year, depending on the return, and rolling with some serious high draft pick options. Heck, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to doing it this offseason. If Boston wants to give me a top 2 pick this year, their bevy of picks coming up, Crowder, Sullinger plus type deal for basically Harden... I'm at least picking up the phone... but you've got to know that's a super risky play as well.

    ----

    On Horford. I like the guy. I think he is better suited at PF than C. And he'd clearly help the Rockets. But he seems to play 'small' too much, is on the wrong side of the peak of his career, and will get paid too much.

    DM has to think long and hard about Horford.
     
  20. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,248
    Likes Received:
    5,141
    Every team tries to build through the draft. Most fail miserably. We built around Yao Ming for a decade and we got out of the first round once. We got farther with Harden in four years. How many teams even try a different approach, where you just try to assemble good players while avoiding tanking? Only a few come to mind, some with great results and some with horrible results. Of the 2003 Detroit Pistons, only one starter was drafted by them? That was Prince, and he was the last pick of the 1st round. Would you say they weren't taking a championship pursuit seriously?

    You're basically saying Philly is more serious about winning championships than the Rockets right now because they're stocking up on picks and we aren't.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now