Aid Worker in Iraq

I think bamaslammer has already served the United States in a war torn country. Right?

 

I like the way that anything opposite of your political agenda is considerred a "War on Reality".
Good things do still happen in this world, even if a Democrat is not in office.

 

Haven't avoided it... just missed it over the weekend. Yes, there's good going on in Iraq and yes, there is bad stuff going on as well. Unfortunately, the bad stuff carries more weight for a variety of reasons. I thank MM for posting this... it is nice to read about some things going right... but it in no way changes my opinion that this was a huge mistake for the US and the War on Terror.

 

I 'm sure Max is sincere in his admiration for the guy. Anyone else take what this guy says with a grain of salt?

A speaker comes to a conservative Christian church, which supports Bush and the war. He is greatly encouraged by what is happening in Iraq. It is just wonderful what is happening there. He claims that the left wing media, you know the NYT and CNN, ABC, CBS and NBC is not telling all the good news. He knows the truth, however.

I heard a guy on rightwing 950 the other day, after the Rush Limbaugh show. He had just returned from Iraq. He was making the rounds to tell how much was great and wonderful, in Iraq, too.

 

I don't think this guy is anybody's tool. I think part of what he's talking about is true. When we see the bombings and bad things going on it's easy to imagine that nobody can do anything because of all the fighting and explosions everywhere. But I do believe that many people are able to go about their business, shop for food, meet in cafes etc.

I don't blame the media for not covering that, because it isn't really news that people are able to carry on with their lives. Do I believe this guy's own position on Iraq might give what he experiences there a certain tint to it? Sure, but that probably goes for most people.

He mentioned less trouble in the British controlled areas. That's true. But what he didn't mention is how the British troops took the time to learn about and respect local customs, so there aren't as many misunderstandings that escalate and lead to resentments with them. The American troops haven't been trained in that way and thus we have some problems that the British troops don't.

Unless you are looking for those kinds of stories you might not understand that this is one of the causes for the resent that we receive more so than the British troops. I don't have a problem believing that he is heartfelt in what he says. I don't think it's the whole picture anymore than the coverage of the bad stuff is the whole picture.

 

not news? after 30-odd years of baathist rule, 12 years of sanctions, several wars, it's not news that people are conducting normal lives, new infrastructure is being built, and the economy is booming? it's huge news, and a remarkable testament to the efforts of the coalition and the resiliency of everyday iRaqis.

 

How do you know it's a "conservative Christian church which supports Bush and the war"? Do you even know which church Max attends?

 

But by the same token, many people were able to shop for food, work, go to school, under Saddam too. That wasn't news when he was in charge either. What was news were those who weren't allowed, that were tortured, imprisoned, raped, etc. They weren't free under Saddam. They still met in Cafes with their friends but you can bet they didn't discuss politics. They at least have those freedoms now to a certain extent.

The new freedoms are good news and that has been covered at least by NPR, but not as much by NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, etc.

The extent of what was not covered or the negatives hyped isn't totally balanced, the negatives about Saddam were definitely covered more than the fact that there wasn't really any terrorism there, there weren't the kidnappings they have now etc. Nor should it have been. That was all overshadowed by his oppressive dictatorship, and cruel ways of handling his power.

Also part of the reason the lack of freedoms that Iraqis still have or the fact that torture and imprisonment of innocents still went on after we took over, is because Bush talked about ending those things. When a person says one thing but does another, or at least there is the possibility that he's doing another, then that's news.

 

Actually I hadn't been avoiding it at all. This is the first time I read it and it is very informative. Of course, I have heard a FAR different perspective from a friend of mine who was a KBR contractor over there for about 6 months. He just got back a couple of weeks ago and he paints a picture that looks much like the "Chicago in the 20s" imagery. Not the best imagery for me, but I guess if Iraq is like Chicago in the 20s, it is a small step up from where they were.

 

As I said, this is probably better than it could be, but certainly doesn't seem like the best possible situation. My friend said that he was "directed" one way or another by armed non-coalition personnel on several occasions. He said that it was definitely frightening, not knowing which of these armed individuals were friendly and which were out to kidnap someone. This was one of the main reasons he came home. He just didn't feel safe.

 

Gosh Max, I forgot how hot you get if you are not proclaimed a moderate despite the content of many of your posts! In a way I also think that you are up to your old tricks, too. Posting innocent enough posts that always have pretty straight forward conservative political implications. To be honest I'm not sure if you are being decptive here or just always seeing your beliefs and assumptions as the only moderate and therefore reasonable ones.

It is true I assumed that your church was conservative, perhaps Baptist, based on relgious remarks that you have made that seemed to suggest that you were an Evangelical Christian. I am Sorry that I was wrong.

Would you care to explain why you decided that your church was wrong to be against the war?

I note that the person who spoke at your church was a missionary and he is also referred to as an aid worker. I must admit that this distresses me. You have to look at the bigger picture to understand this. Iraq had probably the most economicallly middle class country in all the Middle East after Israel in terms of its infrastructure i.e., it education, pubic health statistics, that were a marvel for that part of the world and so forth. Granted Sadam was an appalling dictator, but he had spread the wealth around more than most of that type , and Iraq had considerable oil wealth.

Now after needlessly destroying the entire country, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis in two wars, destroying their health care system etc. we have Christian missionaries going over there as aid workers. Their aid is largely needed because of our actions. It is in a way a chance to spread their Christian beliefs to people who are already religious. Imagine if Muslims reduced the US to abject poverty and then offered to provide us with food or electricity or education if we just listened to the world of Mohammed.

Now to more specifics. You wrote : 1. He said the media's depiction isn't even close to what's going on over there. He said he doesn't believe there is deliberate deception, but that the reporters are carted around in armored vehicles called Trojans...they live in compounds away from the people...and they're taken to the worst spots, while rarely seeing what's really going on. He said the Iraq he sees while he's there and the Iraq he sees on TV when he's back home are like 2 entirely different places.

3. Said the people in Iraq were not nearly as concerned with the American prisoner abuse as you might think

Said the story the news here is not telling is how booming the Iraqi economy is right now.

This is a very close to the current right wing dogma that is repeated frequently that the liberal press is not telling us the good news about Iraq. Is it mere coincidence that it parrots current right wing dogma? Perhaps, but doubtful.

I wrote: "He is greatly encouraged by what is happening in Iraq. It is just wonderful what is happening there. He claims that the left wing media, you know the NYT and CNN, ABC, CBS and NBC is not telling all the good news. He knows the truth, however."

Certainly my statements were close enough to what they guy said above. It did not warrant your you completely misspoke as to what i told you the guy said. literally, ever sentence you wrote was a perversion of the posts i put up here.

 

Oh, Max, why didn't you explain yourself? All I know is what you post. Why just start with all the media is wrong and not telling us about the good stuff in Iraq? Selective editing to support the war? What?

Then get pissed if that is what I understand.

My take was certainly understandable given your support for the war and you leading with what the conservatives always claim. Why were the typical conservatives on the bbs so delighted with your post and challenging liberals to respond?

I was about to post that despite the fact that the US unjustly imho and that of apparently your church caused much of the mess in Iraq, it is still necessary to tend to their health needs and so forth that the USA has unjustly caused.

Good to see that further explanations are somewhat supporting my positions and not what you left out that the guy said.

Not my fault if you selectively led with what was a conservative cliche.

 

Well that was an interesting exchange

Perhaps we should stick to posting tired editorials from the usual sources.

 

Hey! That's my job!