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Aid to Myanmar, should we do fly overs?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DaDakota, May 8, 2008.

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Should we ignore their government and drop supplies to the people

  1. Yes - the people need the aid

    22 vote(s)
    71.0%
  2. No - Let the people starve while the military works it out

    9 vote(s)
    29.0%
  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    China has been doing better on that front by sending over contractors, building roads and ports, in exchange for trade and raw resources. They are politically agnostic in their willingness to deal with despots, but their results in the last 7 years are beginning to match the West's efforts in the last 50.
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    This is a really tough question and I don't have a good answer either way. My head says we should respect international borders and if the regime in Myanmar is going to starve their own people in the face of a disaster that's their business and further that might be what does them in when pissed of Burmese finally have enough and rise up against them.

    OTOH my heart says there are people who dying now and who knows how many more will die or suffer horribly while we have aid just sitting on carriers ready to go.

    Its a tough call and I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make it.

    On related note I don't know if its compassion fatigue but the response to this disaster among regular Americans seems really low. I've been trying to put together a fund raiser for Myanmar but there doesn't seem like much interests where as after the tsunami I was inundated with requests to help out.
     
  3. mleahy999

    mleahy999 Member

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    This makes those Katrina refugees look like a bunch of Nancys. They're burning dead bodies over there and struggling for life, but we had to rough it by sleeping in the SuperDome.
     
  4. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    Nice :rolleyes:
     
  5. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    That might work if they had votes or any power at all and it was not run by the military.
     
  6. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    UN halts aid to Myanmar after junta seizes supplies

    YANGON, Myanmar - Myanmar's junta seized U.N. aid shipments Friday meant for a multitude of hungry and homeless survivors of last week's devastating cyclone, forcing the world body to suspend further help.

    The aid included 38 tons of high-energy biscuits and arrived in Myanmar on Friday on two flights from Bangladesh and the United Arab Emirates.

    "All of the food aid and equipment that we managed to get in has been confiscated," U.N. World Food Program spokesman Risley said.

    "For the time being, we have no choice but to end further efforts to bring critical needed food aid into Myanmar at this time," he said.

    At least 62,000 people are dead or missing in Myanmar, entire villages are submerged in the Irrawaddy delta and aid groups warned that the area is on the verge of a medical disaster.

    The U.N. has grown increasingly critical of Myanmar's military rulers' refusal to let foreign aid workers into the country while the junta appeared overwhelmed and more than 1 million homeless people waited for food, medicine and shelter.

    "The frustration caused by what appears to be a paperwork delay is unprecedented in modern humanitarian relief efforts," Risley said. "It's astonishing."

    The junta said in a statement Friday it was grateful to the international community for its assistance — which has included 11 chartered planes loaded with aid supplies — but the best way to help was just to send in material rather than personnel.

    Nearly a week after the storm, survivors are now having to contend with rotting corpses of people and animals as they wait for food, clean water and medicine.

    "Many are not buried and lie in the water. They have started rotting and the stench is beyond words," Anders Ladekarl, head of the Danish Red Cross.

    About 20,000 body bags were being sent so volunteers from the Myanmar chapter of the Red Cross can start collecting bodies, he said.

    The U.N. was putting together an urgent appeal to fund aid efforts over the next six months. Spokeswoman Elisabeth Byrs told reporters that the exact amount of the appeal would be specified later Friday.

    The International Organization for Migration says it is asking for $8 million as part of the appeal. The U.N. refugee agency says it needs $6 million to fund the immediate shelter and household needs of 250,000 people.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080509/ap_on_re_as/myanmar_cyclone
     
  7. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    Not to be rude, but a paper from the cato institute bears some eyebrow raising in this regard.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I don't know what the hell is wrong with these people.. This regime is as bad as the Tamil Tigers who also refused to work with international aid groups during the tsunami.
     
  9. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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  10. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    Weslinder:

    I am not arguing the validity of the conclusions - just that there are plenty of good results as well. Moreover, as Myanmar is now demonstrating - the UN has relatively little control over how forces on the ground distribute the aid. Simply cutting off aid due to potential abuse seems like a silly reason to abandon the destitute and suffering.
     
  11. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I don't know if we can do anything in Myanmar, and I certainly don't want to get public servants or peacekeepers shot trying. I know that Direct Relief International is trying to help, and I'm probably going to donate to them. The article you posted isn't an isolated event. It shows up virtually every time we try to give government aid to an oppressive regime.

    I know it seems crazy to discredit UNICEF or other well-meaning supranational aid agencies, but the unintended consequences are too severe to ignore.
     
  12. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    I understand your concern - but I'd leave that call the public servants and peacekeepers in question. I'd venture many of them are willing to risk it to help people in need. Frankly, I aspire to that kind of selflessness. /tangent

    I think the bolded bit is important - that distinction was not clear in your previous posts. No doubt, giving aid to a despot is frought with potential abuse. But simply ignoring thousands of suffering people is frought with ethical apathy on a scale I am not comfortable describing, nevermind endorsing.

    If unintended consequences ruled every action the world would be a very strange place. That's not a justification per se - more like an observation.
     
  13. bnb

    bnb Member

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    I think you have to draw a distiction between long term aid and immediate relief for a disaster.
     
  14. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Cato is extremely biased. 100% libertarian. They hate anything that involves government or taxes to an extreme degree.
     
  15. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Cato is also very scientific and very thorough. Their conclusions are normally dead-on. The only accurate criticism about their bias is on what they choose to not study.
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I agree. I guess the government wants to get credit for the aid. So does the US, Christian organizations and even the UN. What a mess.

    I think there are already sanctions against the regime.

    Here's a link to Human Rights Watch criticizing countries for doing oil and gas deals with the junta, which shore it up.

    http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/burma/drilling/
     
  17. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    The distinction that I would draw is that in this case, maybe we should ignore the unintended consequences because the need is acute. I cannot say whether that is wise or not.
     
  18. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    Or not include in their studies. Cato is a very interesting organization in terms of research. They are remarkably (exceptional, actually) at finding data that supports their positions.

    They are also extremely good at omitting data contrary to their agendas.

    IMHO, of course.
     
  19. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Yeah, right. You always know the results. Government is useless. Taxes are therefore always useless. Private good.

    I think they wonder if red lights are evil, due to unwarranted government spending on the lights and intrusion on your personal liberty.

    Economically they are part of the Grover Norquist "put government in a bathtub and drown it" school.

    As Rhad said they are ingenious with supporting some of their crazy ideas.
     
    #39 glynch, May 9, 2008
    Last edited: May 9, 2008
  20. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Silicone-enhanced Horses against Burmese oppression:

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1e0dJ6U_X_E&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1e0dJ6U_X_E&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
     

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