No age limit. Let the NBDL handle the Darko Milicics, and let the fans see LeBron. I don't like the NCAA profiting off of their atheletes while undergrads have to pay an NCAA division I fee in their tuition (hidden or otherwise). So screw them.
I can't believe Billy Hunter (player's union boss) isn't even putting up a fight against this thing. Especially with the success of guys like Lebron, Amare, and the other rather long list of all-stars that have sucessfully come out of high school. Kids these days are doing weightraining and playing year-round at a much younger age, and are coming out of high school with NBA bodies already. The kids from this year's class, Dwight Howard, JR Smith and Josh Smith are all getting starters minutes for their respective teams. They got the talent, let them play!
Age limit. Let the skills develop, as well as creating a greater desire for the developed individual. LBJ, Kobe, Garnett -- T-Mac all disproved the need. How many more proved the need? BTW - the existing farm system has worked wondrously for generations: collegeball!
Billy Hunter is smarter than you think. He's not fighting it, because it's not in their main interest (in fact, the opposite might be true. Many older players are grumbling about the fact that 18/19 years old kids come in and not contributing, yet take away their roster spot. Many veterans lost jobs because of this). Their main interest is the length/size of their contracts, cap and MLE level... So, instead of fighting the Age Limit, Billy Hunter's using it as a bargaining chip, in order to gain concessions from Stern on other issues which belong to their main interest.
I don't like it. What is the point. Seriously. It sounds like the argument is to improve the game. Well, over half of the best players came from highschool, so the logic of that argument implodes on itself. The highschoolers are among the best players. Subtract them out and quality of play suffers. It's simple logic. The other argument is to give these kids an education. Well, you can't demand the kid become educated at the point of a gun. They either want it or they don't. The pass rates published by the NCAA this last year proved that point. That argument implodes. And no matter how it plays out, the kid with millions can always go back to school. Another argument for an age limit is that it will improve the American basketball skill. Well, if a kid goes to school for 2 years, and then goes pro, how does that improve the skill set. First of all you get less practice time, you play against inferior talent, and you abandon the team unity after 2 years. The NBA can provide everything the NCAA can provide, except they do it with better coaches, better player,s better facilities, and they have more time to do it. What about the teenies who didn't make it: Please, there are tons of college players who did't make it either. Would you rather have a kid who had a 4 degree making $50,000 per year or a kid who had no education but 3 million dollars in his pocket. The kid with 3 million has every advantage over the kid with the 4 year degree. The Education can be matched. The money likely cannot. I just don't see one valid argument for it, other than the NCAA game becomes stronger at the NBA's expense, and all that argument does is justify the fact that quality of play in the nba will decrease. Not improve.
I'll accept one of two options: 1) An age limit where kids have to go to college for at least a designated period of time. 2) A system similar to baseball, where the NBA creates 29 NBDL teams, each belonging to one NBA franchise. Therefore, instead of sitting on an NBA bench, the teams can send players down to the minor league to get game experience and playing time. No age limit is just r****ded unless you include a minor league system that works. People say that kids have the right to earn money at 18. That is true. But people seem to forget the kind of jobs people get at 18(low level, not long term career jobs in most cases). Most professional men and women only get into their long term careers after having received a college degree. Do you see full time teachers without college degrees and proper certification? No. Do you see many business people making lots of money with no college education? No. Same goes for Doctors, Lawyers, etc, the list goes on. Could you imagine what would happen if you eliminated the standards necessary to worl in some of those professions? It would be scary, to be honest. The bottom line is in order to start most career choices, you have to have a requisite level of experience. And considering the NBA is the pinnacle of the careers of basketball playing professionals, they have every right to put certain prerequisites on potential entries into the league if they so choose. Also, as far as fan of both the NCAA and the NBA is concerned, the league needs an age limit or a good minor league system. It's a sad state of affairs when the prevaling attitude among NCAA basketball players is the longer you are on campus the worse a player you are. For example, Texas's Daniel Gibson has recently considered going pro. He is a good freshman, but he is not in the top 2 or 3 at his position. He needs at least one more year before he has NBA ready skills. However, he is considering going pro after one year of college, even though he really hasn't accomplished anything significant as a player. Finally, I know there are stories with quotes by guys like Mike Dunleavy Jr and Jermaine O'Neal that they learned more by sitting on an NBA bench than playing in college. However, if O'Neal especially had gone to college or had a good minor league setup he wouldn't have needed 6 years to finally make his mark in the league. Dunleavy was pretty polished coming out of Duke, so he doesn't really belong in the discussion. Lastly, for every Kobe Bryant, KG, Amare, and Lebron, there are many more Leon Smith's and Korleone Young's of the world who just don't make it and that's not counting guys who went to college for a year or two and have never been heard of again.
Good points, DVauthrin. I really like the minor league idea. I'm surprised this hasn't been implemented yet in the NBA considering how well it works in other sports. They really should change the draft to reflect this as well. Still keep it two rounds, but make the first to draft those players over the age or experience limit, and the second round for those under. Those "over limit" players not drafted can sign on with minor league teams with open roster spots. Half of the NBA draft now consists of players hovering around or under 19-20, so it really wouldn't change who all gets drafted really.
An age limit would likely boost the level of competition in the NBA. Right now, players are drafted earlier and earlier as teams race to find the Next Franchise Player. But the younger the player, the much harder it is to project productivity. Which, of course, affects the team's bottom line. As more and more teens rot on the pine and waste resources, GMs will likely become more reluctant to pick 18-year-old kids entirely on potential. They'll start doing the math. If it takes 4-5 years for a teen to develop -- and the team only has rights for 3 years -- the team may lose the players' best years anyway. It reaches a point when potential is simply overvalued, and the "market," such as it is, corrects itself with a less speculative push. In time, there will likely be a de facto age limit. But I do not think the NBA should impose an official age limit. It's not fair to the kids who ARE ready, or to the teams that draft them. Lebron James was ready at 18. He may even win an MVP at 20. There are teens this year who are contributing to their teams. Why punish the kids just so GMs can protect themselves from themselves?
and bryce drew went to college for 4 years and he'll never be heard from again. the fact is, this could be said about any group in the draft. HSer have proven themselves quite nicely. so like i said, as much as it might help college and marginally help the nba, i still can't support it considering how well previous 18 year old draftees have faired.
First of all, I prefer a minor league idea much more than a strict age limit. As a fan of the game, I would be happy with either. Secondly, the point about qualifications for entering the league was that if the NBA wants to do it, they have every right to do so(not whether I really think an age limit is the right solution). It's not like they are punishing the kids. The NBA is the top level for any basketball player, if they as a business want to put a standard of qualifications on any potential applicants(in this case entries) they can do so, just like with other business sectors. However, that said, the reason I want a good minor league system more than an age limit is that guys like LeBron can come in and still be stars, but for those who aren't(like Smith's of the world) they can have support and guidance while still working on their games and in the case of a guy like O'Neal he could have gotten game experience that he wouldn't get on a team as deep as the Blazers(more than likely speeding up his development). Another good example is all the trouble Kwame Brown has had. A minor league would have helped him out a great deal I think. Furthermore, the point on Gibson was illustrating the attitude of the NCAA basketball player today. I remember when TJ Ford was the national POY and debating coming out and articles said that players are considered "failures" if you are still in college past your sophomore year. That is what concerns me. Also, back to Gibson(i'm a UT soon to be alum and I love the kid) this is a player who has not won anything, and not distinguished himself to the point where he is at the top of his position. If he comes out this year, he slots behind Williams at Illinois, Paul at Wake, Gilchrist at Maryland, and Felton at UNC. That puts him at best in the lower tier of the first round(unless a couple of these guys stay: highly unlikely). Will I be upset if he goes, no, I won't. But will I second guess it? Yes. Personally, I miss the idea of kids going pro because they feel like they are the head of the class at their positions but it's not overly bothersome to me. Also, about your point that the Lebron's out number the failures, I think that we just don't hear anything about the failures while guys like Amare and Lebron are hyped to the max. But like I said earlier, a good minor league setup lets the kids who are ready come in and play right away, but also give those who have potential but aren't a better support system and chance for success. Furthermore, a good minor league system helps both the NBA and the NCAA. The NBA teams should start seeing dividends on their long term projects sooner(hopefully before they hit FA for the first time) and a lot of these kids will start really thinking about their decision if they feel like they might get put in the minors at first. Lastly, I'm not trying to stifle opportunity at all. And as far as Bryce Drew goes, he had a much better chance to be/succeed as a pro after four years of college than had he come out of high school. Also, he's not a good example as he never really possessed the skill set to be anything more than a role player at the NBA level. Some good examples for what I desire are guys like Elton Brand(left as a sophomore, but a polished player and a national POY), Antawn Jamison(left UNC as a junior NBA ready) and Emeka Okafor. And as guards/forwards go, guys like Michael Redd, Shawn Marion, Lamar Odom, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Dwyane Wade(who proved his dominance in the NCAA tourney beating Kentucky as a junior) and even Stephon Marbury and Carmelo Anthony(both left as a freshman, but they had shown the ability to dominate at the college level). And Arenas left as a sophomore, but he had proven he was really good as a scoring guard/shooter in college. I'm not saying they have to impose an age limit at all, but with a minor league system players who do come out unpolished have a better chance of success because of the extra resources they would have. And the thing iif they do choose the age limit route even one or two years of starting for a major college program under a great teacher as a head coach better prepares them for making a greater impact at the NBA level much quicker. None of these current NBA stars got worse by playing in college, only better. But I do think the best solution is use the NBDL as the minor league for the NBA with each team having one NBDL franchise to move players up and down and to have some potential guys they liked in training camp but didn't have roster spots for fill out those spots not taken by their own players.
Lastly, I think it would be very interesting to compare draft classes from the last 4 or 5 years to those in the 5 years before that and comparing how quickly current stars developed between the two groups(HS/at least some college experience) more than anything(since it's not fair to just do who has more stars: the college game would as they have more players)
Age before beauty Marty Burns, SI.com The NBA's Romper Room could soon be closing down. The league and its players seem to be nearing agreement on a minimum age limit of 20, which could go into effect as soon as next season. The exact terms still have to be negotiated as part of the upcoming new labor agreement, but the consensus around the league is that it will get done. "It's going to happen," agent Bill Duffy said. "There appears to be enough bilateral support now." Concerned about the flood of high school and college underclassmen flowing into the pro ranks in recent years, NBA commissioner David Stern has long supported a minimum age limit of 20. However, the league could not unilaterally impose the restriction; it had to be part of the labor agreement, and the players association was always opposed. But now there seems to be a feeling among many players that maybe it's not such a bad idea. For one, the old guard is losing jobs to the teen brigade. For another, the youngsters in too many cases just aren't ready to play. "I don't look at [an age limit] as a bad thing," Sonics guard Ray Allen said at last month's All-Star weekend. "I think we're helping out younger guys, not hurting them." The shift in position by many players in itself doesn't guarantee a deal will get done. The players association continues to view an age limit as a concession, one that will have to be negotiated over the bargaining table. In other words, the NBA might have to give up something to get it done. But if Stern wants it bad enough, he should be able to make it happen. Meanwhile, mere talk of a limit could lead to an onslaught of high school kids or college frosh into this year's draft. Last year 13 high school kids declared (four withdrew), and some believe even more could declare this year as kids who don't want to go to college try to beat the impending deadline. "I think some are going to look at it more closely now," Duffy said.
