Mobley is 28 Francis will be 26 next month. I thought they were younger. For me it's hard to understand a player with tremendous talent like Steve and Mobley to have a tough time passing the ball and create play for his teammates. And when they have teammates like Yao and a promising Eddie that is even harder to believe. Steve and Mobley are in their late 20's. The question is how much longer are we willing to wait for them to get it? What is the likely hood of a person at 26 not getting it now will get it 2-3 years later? Honestly I still have more hope for Steve than Mobley. Mobley is an under sized shooting guard. If he doesn't get it now then it's gonna be twice as tough for him later on when he's in his 30's.
oooo! doc, pull your panties outta your ass. your sooo wise and intimidating. lets seee... pretty much everygame i have seen, stevie passes the ball to start with, and then when his teamates start throwing up bricks he gets upset and then tries to do too much, this is nothing that cannot be corrected with time. i do think that steve will be on par with those 2 players i mentioned. meet me back in 10 yrs and we will discuss it further, but at this point your argument, as well as mine, is all speculation. i have yet to see stevie dog it on defense. i am sorry, but save a few exceptions, no one shuts anyone down man to man in this league. so that is a tired piece of **** too. also, yeah, we're young. when i say young, i mean in terms of playing together as a group and with a different offense. and if you wanna try to say it is not a new offense, then you haven't been watching all the games or your just r****ded. elements of one on one play are still there, but there has been alot more baskets in transition and ball movement. not as much as the kings, but it is a work in progress. and my main point is patience. you act like my 8 yr old neice. a whole lot of complaining and no patience. also, if you ever talked like that to me in my face, i swear to god, i would have broken your f*cking jaw. see, i been warned about playing nice, so i am trying. have a nice day, punk.
Think about it, Steve and Cuttino are very similar players- Athletic streak shooters, very good off the dribble 1/1 prone to bad decisions forcing shots and making senseless turnovers Solution: 1. make one of them the 6th man start moochie and demand that he play like a point guard. 2. trade one of them for an outstanding playmaker (point) 3. try to get it through Steve's head that he needs to stop driblbling so much, playing wild making so many critical turnovers and stop forcing his offense into the teeth of the defense especially in the 4th qtr. 4. stay the same and end up with a .500 or less record in the top end of the lottery.
i don't think steve will ever "get it" as a point guard. dude is a 100% natural shooting guard. it's in the way he runs, the way he shoots, the way he overpenetrates and the way he hotdogs... and until we get a point guard in here that actually plays like a point guard (hello andre miller) we'll continually see the rockets playing outside in, instead of inside out. ...hey, doc... how bout griff (and cap filler) for andre miller?....
They are very similiar. That's why people usually praise or criticize them as a tandem. Rarely will someone say, "oooooh, Steve's a great passer but that Cat, he's just a ballhog". Having 2 very similiar players on your team that like to shoot creates inconsistency. Inconsistent does not mean bad. It means that one day youre going to shoot lights out, the next you can't make a 2 footer. The problem is that inconsistent teams never win championships. To get to the next level the Dynamic Duo's passing skills and their willingness to pass must increase. You have to differentiate these. Some people try to pass but they just aren't good at it thus creating turnovers. Other people are good passers but just aren't willing to give it up. The problem with Steve and Cat is that oftentimes, theyre neither. They neither want to pass nor are they effective passers. How often have we seen our guards dribble into a crowd of 5 defenders then bounce the ball off their teammate's foot or dribble the ball around for 20 seconds and then finally give it up with 4 seconds left on the shot clock. If we want to get to the next level, passing ability and willingness to pass must both increase.
I think all the critics and apologists agree, at least to some degree, that Francis needs to be smarter and be a better passer. (Let's just ignore his other stuff, such as post game comments, for the moment.) Now there's a different between seeing a teammate open and not passing to him and not seeing a teammate when he is open. Both are bad. Both are indication of "not getting it." But they are not the same kind of "not getting it." The former kind is the issue of mentality, attitude, ego, etc. This kind of stuff can be corrected by having somebody he respects reminding him again and again and again the futility of trying to win games by himself. Or having somebody hard nose to discipline him until he "gets it." Oh, and age does help. Many people will get over the "me me me" stuff when they get older. There's no guarantee it can be corrected, of course. Dominique is one example mentioned by DD. But it's hopeful. The latter kind is the issue of TALENT. Some people just don't have the vision to see where the teammates (and defenders) are. It's not that they don't want to pass. They just can't. Court vision is a basketball skill. It is in some way similar to shooting touch. Some people are born with it (just like Francis' athleticism). Some people don't have it first but can improve through more experience and work. Some people never get it no matter what. If Francis has the latter kind, I am more worried. But I'm inclined to believe it's the former kind (the mental thing). And I agree with the apologists that he has shown signs of improvement.
I tend to agree with gootan. I'd miss Steve, but... I wonder what he'd fetch. I'd definately trade him + contracts for Garnett. Part 2 : I'd hope to barter Cuttino + Griffin or other change for an outstanding set up and decent 2, like Andre Miller and Q, or a package with Odom and a Snow-type 1. That would be a dream team. You can hold the "you're dreaming" replies - I know. The point is Steve is tradeable, if you get a better team in return. That may even mean trading down in talent and up in smarts, if gootan's 123 all expire, as in the Kidd/Marbury trade.
I would not trade Steve Francis. Im not a big proponent of the Dynamic Duo's passing but Im willing to give them more time to sort it out. If it continues and one player has to go, I'd trade Mobley.
The difference with these guys maybe is that Dream and Jordan were selfish, but they understood the game. I think Steve is the other way around, he's not really all that selfish, but his understanding of the game needs a lot of work. But then a lot of it could be solved if he moves to SG. You dont have to be as smart when you play the 2.
My kids tape every Rocket game on national television. One night, we're driving to Keokuk for a tournament and they're watching the Seattle game in the back of the van. One of my 10 year old daughters (a point guard) yells out "Gosh, Steve Francis is a ballhog!" A little later in the drive, another of my 10 year old daughters (also a point guard) yells out "Get the ball to Yao. How come Francis never passes the ball to Yao?" THEY get it!
Oh, and <i>you</i> do get it, do you? Well, maybe we should hire you as the new coach. No, f*** that, maybe we should sign you as the new point guard. I'm sure we'd be much better off. I've never seen a post stuffed with so much horse-sh**.
I've met so many people who can break jaws through email it's actually quite 'neato' and most, like you, aren't that quick. Also, you'd really never be on the same court as me so I can promise you that you'd be breaking nobody's jaws there. Also, nobody gives a **** about you playing nice. We'd all love to see this right cross, but like other talkers, you'll never pursue it - you'll just talk about it. I look forward to finishing this conversation, Grahamcracker (Actually, is GRAM! a drug reference? Cuz that's pretty cool, too.) One other thing, the 'have a nice day' with the 'punk' in the same sentence, very cool yet very scary. It's kinda like a prisoner whose tattoo says "I love Mom!' Very New Yorkish. I can dig that Big City street mentality...really, it's very cool. Man, I'm from TX...I can't take any trouble from a badcat from NY. (Also, GRAM! with that exclamation point - is that to serve notice that you've arrived, your name is cool, or just to actually use punctuation? I suggest after you graduate, you drop it from your resume. Even Burger King is not going to think that's real cool! Just some advice - ) By the way, your grammar is pathetic and your niece probably isn't too far behind. Note to posters - I can't help myself sometimes...it's the intrigue.
Really??? ZRB??? Go here...http://protrolls.homestead.com/protrolls.html Sorry, couldn't resist. Plus, I never said Steve will never get it. I'm saying at 26, Steve does not yet have it. Cat at 28 will not get it - with IT being understanding how to play. The point of the thread is for me to find out if others think he may understand the game one day. Again, like every other poster on here, NOBODY'S SAYING HE'S HORRIBLE, NOBODY'S SAYING TO TRADE HIM. We're asking are we the best team that we can be right now? Could we be better with someone else at the point? The answer ZRB is that we may NOT be better with Steve at the 2. Maybe we are, maybe we're not. That's called..uhh....a thread. Now, if you reread this thread and countless others, how can you say that we're all wrong and you all are right? Why? Why are we wrong about exploring options? When Steve gets 44, I yell for him. When Steve g0es 1 for 12 i yell against him. He's not bigger than the organization. He's getting paid millions for a job that includes criticism.
You looking for an answer. I think the answer is getting waxed in the playoffs. It sure helped Isiah Thomas (5 yrs of playoff futility), the Kings and Mavericks learn a thing or two. Guys like Steve and Isiah need to be humbled to learn.
Doc, Can I please use that quote for a signature? Note to all members: If you hound an insider enough, they will get upset and snap. Accept what they have to say. Opinions are welcome and that's what they are.
i like THIS doc rocket much better than the "crypt keeper" doc rocket of the past. this one shoots straight from the hip... ...not to mention he's telling the truth. steve does not get it and cat doesn't either.
Not that I have any incling who you are, but Doc you gots to have more patience brother. I think that Steve does get IT, but IT doesn't win many games for you when the rest of your squad can't hit an open jumper. Steve's problem is only exaccerbated by Mobley firing away at will whenever he feels he hasn't in a couple of trips down court. The best solution to this problem has already been mentioned, get a starting 2 and move Mobes to the bench. The catch is that Mobley does have starter talent, but not for this team. Cat is a primetime scorer who can light it up when he's on but when he's not he really hurts us. I would be really surprised to see any deals from us this year, but getting a starting 2 (or 3 should we move Posey to the 2) would really help us out a lot. An interesting possibility might be Maggette or somebody like him that can do things other than just score. This would also allow Cat to come off the bench where his bombs away approach would be a help not a hindrance (the guy was almost won 6th man a couple of years back right?) Francis/Moochie Maggette/Cat Posey/Nachbar Griffin/Taylor Ming/Cato
