1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

After Watching David Carr Today...

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Joshaaronb, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Member
    Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,479
    Likes Received:
    277
    I see your point, but I will stick by my opinion and still say that the Texans should draft a LT with the high pick and concentrate on getting a TE, LB, SS, and WR with their later picks than to pick up a player at a position that is already filled.

    The way I see we agree to disagree, lets just hope they make the right choices and picks that will help turn this team around.
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    50,818
    Likes Received:
    17,207
    But your scenario is purely hypothetical too.

    Who says that a "pass blocking tackle" picked late in the first round or second round will have anywhere near the capabilities of the one passed up in the top of the 1st round. For all we know, he could be WORSE than Seth Wand... and with our scouting, I wouldn't trust them trying to make that late pick for such an important position.

    Reggie Bush is great... hands down... but we won't be running it on every play, and I still don't see nearly enough progress made with this line to think that it can be saved by anyone BUT a franchise-type LT.

    Now, of course, if the LT at the top doesn't blow away the competition, then I'd agree with your sentiments... but if they project him to be good enough to be a top-3 pick, you take him.

    A good o-line is the foundation, the blood, the guts... you can't be a good team without one. The problem should have been addressed before the expansion draft, or during the second year draft... and now they're paying the consequences.
     
  3. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    390
    Who in the world could watch this team and claim that Pitts is good out there at left tackle? What have you been eating? That's a total joke. I think I could get around end on him. He can't stop anybody on the pass rush. Pitts is a guard.........period, exclamation point.

    Next, how many top calibar playoff teams have a LT or RT for a left handed QB that was not drafted in the top half of the first round? Conversely, how many top calibar playoff teams have running backs that were drafted after the first round? Also, how long is the career of an average starting tailback in the NFL? How long is the career of an average starting left tackle in the NFL? When you compare the running back, quarterback, and left tackle positions, you will see that there are way more top performers at the running back and quarterback postions that were lower than first round picks, and there are way fewer top performing left tackles that were lower than a first round pick.

    Get real folks. There's no question. We've gotta take a pass on the glitz and glitter of players like Bush, Lienhart, and Vince Young and we gotta get that franchise left tackle that can keep Carr upright for longer than .9 seconds.

    Look at the starting running backs, quarterbacks, and left tackles of the last 20 years of Super Bowl teams and compare how many running backs were first rounders, how many quarterbacks were first rounders, and how many blind side tackles were first rounders. The results will astound you.

    We've gotta have a top notch left tackle before we are gonna get anywhere.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,829
    Likes Received:
    41,302
    That's the same school of thought that the texans have applied for every year of their existence, apparently, and it isn't helping them.
    If you're building a team from nothing, it just makes SO MUCH sense to start with the O-line first, given that they have such longevity (which the texans actually did with boselli, but then had no plan B, which was foolish, and inexcusable as they still don't have one). I remember when the OIlers drafted Munchak, Steinkuhler, Matthews and basically solidified their line for a decade or more, and augmented it with Brad Hopkins a few years down the road (and Hopkins is STILL better than any OL who has played a down for the texans even though he's been in the leagure forever). Obviously the free agency rules have changed since then - but again, all players at all positions become FA's.
     
  5. The Real Shady

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2000
    Messages:
    17,173
    Likes Received:
    3,972

    I think a sane person could tell that Pitts plays better at LT than OG. Look how much better the line looks when he is out there. The sacks go down, and Carr has more time to throw. Not a lot of time, but more than when Riley is out there. Did you notice how the line colapsed when the Texans moved Wand out to LT and moved Pitts back into Guard?
     
  6. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2000
    Messages:
    14,527
    Likes Received:
    5,528
    others have made this point, and i bring up the same counter, which is that munchak was taken in 1982, mathews 1983, steinkuler 1984. the oilers did not have a winning record until 1987 and that was only because our replacement team won two games the regulars would have surely lost (at denver and at cleveland).

    so it took five horrendous seasons of losing (they had the 3rd overall pick in the '87 draft) before they were winners. it is a looooong process. now, obviously, we have the benefit of hindsight, but would mcnair have been content with a five-year plan? plus, building along the OL at the top of the draft takes you out of contention to draft the best skill players in the country, and while i don't oppose drafting OL high in the draft, it is one of the few units on the field that functions as a team, and therefore, can be built with less than great talent if the talent can a) be coachable; b) gel together and compliment one another. denver is exhibit A. scheme is just as vital to an OL and talent.

    but you can't manufacture gamebreakers. you can't draft an AJ in the fifth round. you look at the top 5 QBs, RB and WRs right now - in terms of numbers - and of those 15 guys, 2 - TWO - weren't first round picks. the rest were.
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,829
    Likes Received:
    41,302
    Yeah, but IIRC the replacement team also lost a game (cincinatti?) that the Oilers would have been favored in, as well as the missed "game" - so strike or no, that team would have been around 8-8 plus or minus a game, and would have only gotten better in subsequent years, like they did. (I believe they went from 5-11 to 9-6 from 86-87 and then were reliably a 9-12 win team until 1994.

    But anyway, yeah, they sucked at first, because they were blocking for Larry Moriarty and we were throwing to Tim Smith, and I don't even want to mention the defense, but 10 years later, Munchak and Matthews were still there, and the Oilers were still a super bowl contender year in and year out, as they filled in shorter shelf life players around them. Those guys blocked for at least 4 different 1000 yard rushers over the course of their career (Rozier, White, Brown, and George)


    And when you have neither....what then? Maybe we dont' need 5 no. 1 draft picks, However, given how untalented they are as a group, ONE would be nice. Hell even Denver has 1. We have a bunch of cast-offs and nobodies. Casserly's own philosophy was to build the line first as well. Which he did in his first draft and the expansion draft, even though the players he tried to build with for the most part busted fairly quickly. Then he abandoned it and is sort of making it up as he goes along.

    No, but you can pick him up or somebody like him a few years later and not subject him to a horrifc OL that is not developing or progressing except in the wrong direction...maybe he will lead the Texans to the playoffs one day, if he chooses to re-up with Houston after a few more years of what look to be hardcore losing, or if they have to make him an (unhappy) franchise player to keep him.

    ALso, your top 5 example goes both ways - New England had one top 5 skill pos. player last year, not highly drafted, and they dominated the league.

    The thing is that it is just SO obvious that this has been a problem area since day 1, and there has been next to nothing done about it, "Seth Wand is a great prospect!" "the new scheme will work out!" "We pick too high to get an OL, they're not that deep this year". Those excuses looked dubious then and even worse now.
     
    #67 SamFisher, Nov 9, 2005
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2005

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now