How is civility hard to understand? My point is even if you don't understand why someone finds something offensive would you at least be willing to be civil enough to them not to use that language or do a particular act around them that they find offensive? We live in a pluralistic and diverse society where we all have to get along. Various groups have different practices and mores and where possible and where they don't conflict with our own mores we should respect them even if we don't understand them. I don't get how saying that non-blacks shouldn't be able to use "N^gger" or its variations or that it isn't right to call Chinese "Chinaman" is something that conflicts with anyone's mores. Its just basic civility.
It's losing its racial connotation. I think of ****** more for what it really is now, slang for ignorant, than a racial slur. And I think over time, with prejudice and racism becoming less accepted and practiced to kids, it will eventually fade away. ***** will probably never go away though, which sucks, because I think its a word that is holding black people back in society's eyes. Don't try and sell me that "***** is ok to say" crap either, it's the same g*dd*mn word..
I think a lot of people here are mixing up racism with basic civility to the point that some seem to be demanding for allowing for the use of all racially derogatory terms by anyone towards anyone else. There is a valid argument that under free speech we should and I would never want to see speech like that banned but at the same time we live in a civil society and to maintain a civil society means we respect differences even if they seem strange to us. I'm not a Catholic but I'm not going to go around making fun of the Virgin Mary. I'm not Hindu but when I visited Hindu temples I've removed my shoes. I'm not Jewish but when I've visited a Synogogue I've covered my head. Whether I understand why those are important to that culture or whether or not individual members of those groups might engage in language or behavior contrary to those norms in the interest of being friendly and civil I will still follow those norms. The way some people are arguing here is as though groups shouldn't be shown basic respect that it is their fault for offending everyone else since people not of that group can't make fun of them. I mean if you heard some 9/11 widdows make some gallows humor about 9/11 does that mean that you should be allowed to make fun of 9/11? I seriously doubt it yet somehow non-blacks are bothered that they can't use "N^gger" "*****" or some other variation? Whether you think its racist that you as a non-black can't call someone "*****" howabout refraining from not doing so because its the civil thing to do.
I believe Sen Jay Billington Bulworth said it best. "All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep f*ckin' everybody 'til they're all the same color. " I realize my point of view isnt shared by everyone...but as far as I am concerned...skin color dont mean sh*t to me....we all human beings...homo sapiens..strip our skin off...and you cant tell the difference between us. All I ask is that when looking back at the injustices of the past, yall try to remember that just cause there are still backwards ass rednecks that refuse to move into the 21st centruy, there is a large percentage of us "whiteys" that refuse to make the mistakes our ancestors made.... assuming that we are all the same is no fairer to those of us who dont think the way they do than the racists were/are to the minorities over the years.
I'm sorry. I missed the posts where non-blacks were asking to use the "N" word or where someone was wanting to use language around someone who would find that language offensive.
this whole thread is depressing. i don't know how often "whiteboys" in this thread hear the word in "real life". i hear it every day and so do my children. it ain't pretty, and as sishir asks: how hard is civility to understand? i'm not going to explain to my children, if i ever hear those words come out of their mouths, that it's okay for them to say it because they are black and not okay for you because you are white. i will tell them that it is offensive and wrong, period.
Well said. And you are correct, this whiteboy, rarely hears the word anymore, outside of rap music etc. And as far as I am concerned "good riddance". DD
That is pretty sad Basically .. you and your father beleive the human condition cannot tolerate difference the only way to have peace. . is for everyone to be the same Rocket RIver
gotta agree this whiteboy hasnt actually heard anyone use the word in ages. my neighbors on three sides are all black families...and I gotta say I never hear any of them use either form of the word. growing up in Pasadena during the time when there was still a open KKK chapterhouse had the opposite effect that some might think...I used to cringe whenever I heard the term while growing up...mainly cause my momma raised me better... funny thing...I guess...I used to hear it more often from people who are of mexican ancestry...why is that I wonder? Im not being difficult...one would think that since they experience racism they would be the last ones to use words like that...I have no explanation for it...adn since for the most part I hate confrontation..I didnt call them on it.
Not meaning YOU but most times when people say we should have ONE CULTURE they usually mean THEIR CULTURE basically everyone should come to their way of thinking rather than a compromise I think Tolerance is a better plan I think Difference is what make like great I could not stand to be in a bland world where everyone is the same WE ARE NOT BORG! Rocket River
...and let me guess, you're white. You have lied before simply to make a point here in DD. Why should we beleive that you lived in New Orleans? Liar. As an aside, ***** and the Nword are two different words. Didn't somebody already mention that?
This dude knows it all. <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9uvJzr0zZvk"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9uvJzr0zZvk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
My point is that racism isn't just about intent. I know that you are trying to make it that way, but it is about ignorance. In the 60's - 80's or even later when bad guys in movies and television were cast predominantly as blacks, the intent of producers, directors, writers, casting directors wasn't to put a race down. But it was ignorant, perhaps brought on by assumed stereotypes they had learned. In turn it fostered more ignorance and fear which makes it easier for groups like the KKK and the neo-nazi groups to operate. It is actually what made Nazi Germany possible. It was possible because of ignorant stereotypes all over the world that were accepted and repeated. Those stereotypes had been around for ages. The stereotypes were accepted and repeated. As far as the ignorant stereotypes about the way minorities were portrayed in the media, it helped society in general have a less favorable opinion about hiring, promoting etc. That is why stupid jokes about stereotypes are criticized and seen as offensive. If someone acts out of ignorance and makes the correction like Steve Kerr that is one thing. He probably isn't racist, though he made a racist remark. If someone makes ignorant gaffs repeating stereotypes like Zoeller did they may not have any malice in their heart but they do have some racist preconceptions. They should be addressed and not excused. The person can choose to continue using them or not. But at least they should be aware of what they are doing, which is why it is good to call them on it. It is not acceptable to let it slide and assume that no harm comes from it if no ill intent was present. That is exactly what happened in Europe during the time of the Nazis and we saw how that turned out. By assuming that only people who overtly want a whites only society are racist then much damage can be done. Stereotypes need to be combatted. I'm not going to list every example that is ok to joke about in what circumstances and when it isn't to me. That is something individuals need to decide for themselves.
i'm not the most eloquent bloke, so i'm sure it didn't come out the way i meant it. none of us know each other here, so a lot of assumptions are being made. i think Another Brother, for example, has confused me with someone i'm not. i don't think you guys know too many people who celebrate difference as much as i do. i'm for all cultures being celebrated by all people. i don't like that AB and others would rather i mind my own business and stay out of "their" culture. however, i respect the rights of hasidic jews living in their own communities, the chinese, the mexicans, etc. hey let's balkanize the world so everyone can keep their cultures to themselves.
Not if they are said by a white person.....they are the same word...IMHO. Spoiler I just wish we could all get along, as we are all part of the human race. DD
