For some wierd reason, people seem to have this bizarre notion that a word is either offensive or it is not regardless of who is saying it or the context. The fact that this is obviously not true seems quite obvious to me. Yet people have such a hard time understanding this and it is puzzling to me. Just because someone special to you can call you a pet name that perhaps could be contrued generally as offensive doesn't mean therefore you've now given that "right" for everyone to call you by that pet name. If you call your wife "sweetcheeks" or whatever does that mean everyone in the office can call her that? Or are you gonna argue some BS that since someone can call her by a pet name that everyone can? The reason why "n-gga" or even "n--gger" is "acceptable" by a black person to another black person is because there's no general sense of racial hatred of hostility coming from someone of your own race. This should not need any explanation. Is it possible for a non-black person to say it and for it to be socially acceptable? Sure, if you're a close knit group of friends and they know you well and haven't made a big deal cause you said "n--gga" to them then that's fine. But even then, it would be risky to say this to black strangers because the assumption or the first thought is that you're using it in a hostile way.
Exactly. Ff it is such an offensive word, why use it at all? Anytime you call someone of your own race, a degrading name, you are insulting your race/culture/heritage.
Why do you care if blacks call each other by a supposedly "degrading name that insults their race/culture/heritage"? Why???? Because you want to use it? What's your obsession with this? And for the hundred billionth time, who uses a word and the context makes a difference whether a word is offensive or not, not just the word itself. Why do white people not get this simple fact? If you have a pet name or nickname that your significant other calls you does that mean you therefore have no right to be offended if everyone calls you that? Surely not. So assuming you understand this, why is this sooooo hard for you people to understand???
You don't want to understand, you want to challenge, and you'll never sucessfully be able to do either.
im not specifically speaking of black people. Im saying there is no reason for groups of people to call eachother names that would otherwise be found offensive if used by anyone else. This goes for any group of people, not only black
How can you not understand this? Here, I'll make it easy for you and put it in white terms. Irish people enjoy making fun of themselves and call each other all sorts of stereotypical names of insult. It is all in good fun. If an Brit says the same thing, then there will be some problems. How about Jews. Comedians and regular people alike play with stereotypes and hate language all the time. Jon Stewart, for example, does so often on national TV when there is another Jewish guest or he will do a, "well you know us Jews" with non-Jewish. If a Christian or Muslim, etc., however say such htings there are problems. Even Seinfeld played off of this with the dentist who converted just so he could tell Jewish jokes and then talk about "our people" if someone got offended. So you must hid in your room a lot if you think it is a bs cop out or mind-numbingly stupid and limited to African-Americans and their use of that word. It is human nature. We all do it with ourselves and yet we all expect for others to respect us. White people are just too damn stupid to understand human nature, I suppose.
I also don't understand why people don't get this. We've all used self-depracting humor or made fun of ourselves personally. People do it all the time. But does that mean that its okay for other people to do it or that we can't be offended if other people do it? Conversely does it mean that since other people can't make fun of us that we can't make fun of ourselves? This kind of logic would be ridiculous yet this is exactly what people are saying here. You making fun of yourself is not the same thing as other people making fun of you. You making fun of yourself does not mean you can't be offended if others do the same. That others cannot do the same to you does not mean you can't make fun of yourself either. It's not that hard to understand.
A black comedian should be able to make fun of Jews. And Jews should be able to make fun of blacks. That's what I really dislike about the whole PC thing. We are all freakin racists. Why - because it's human nature to judge people by the color of their skin, and you know what - we all stereotype. And yes, most of it is cultural but race is such a big part of the way culture plays out. Read Blink if you disagree. If merely a word offends a person, I really think that person needs to grow thicker skin or see a psychologist. I can understand getting upset with racist treatment or if someone says something with the intent to belittle you or inflict pain... But if Steve Kerr refers to someone as a Chinaman - the whole word freaks out. If Fuzzy Zoeller makes a joke about Tiger Woods race then what happens? All of a sudden he's a racist? Look what mel gibson said while drunk about Jews to a few cops? Who cares? Everyone says racist things. It's so dumb to get offended by words. I grew up in New Orleans and racism there is rampant. I remember hanging with childhood friends a few years back and man, and I heard how they referred to blacks and yeah, it bothered me. But it wasn't the words - it was the THINKING. Words are hard to pin down...their meanings are transient and unclear. If you live in a world of words - you're living in a glass house.
i wouldnt waste time explaining anything to cmiller and his ilk. Its obvious from the progression of his posts in this thread, that his initial question was a dishonest one. His mind is already made up, and he's not out to learn anything. so cmiller just go ahead and use the n-word all you want. you dont need to try and justify it. must be very gratifying
I said it before, but I think it bears repeating. You seem to be confusing racism with just a healthy dose of anti-PC. That is one of the dangers of PC which is why it so stupid. That and the fact that much of the PC crap we hear leads to censorship of anti-racist literature like Mark Twain's writings, and To Kill a Mockingbird. In addition it attempts to rewrite history. Don't get me started with how much I hate PC. But... that is a sidetrack. Racism still isn't excused because of the PC movement. Steve Kerr made a mistake and said something that was racist. Zoeler said something that harkened back to hurtful demeaning stereostypes. Because the PC movement is wrong, that doesn't make his comments 'ok' or inoffensive.
have you even read a word that I or anyone else had posted that tried to help you understand? don't you get it? it a term of brotherhood used within the african american community. ***** IS DIFFERENT FROM ******. do you understand? if you can't get that then just end the damn thread. READ WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING AND QUIT LOOKING AT IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF YOUR PRECONCEIVED IDEAS. ***** is not a racial slur. ****** is a racial slur. since it is a corruption of ****** and so close to the root word then it is certainly looked down upon when used by white people. hell even the word *****rdly is looked down upon (which is just flat out stupid). anyhow, depending on the person, if you go up to a random black guy and say "what up my *****?" you will probably get a crazy look and a reply of laughter since they will think you are some dopey white guy or a "what did you say?" "don't say that man". if you say "what up my ******?" then you will probably get a really angry "what the fk did you just call me you white b****!" reply. also, it is viewed as less offensive when spoken by latinos since they are also people of color. like when j-lo used ***** in one of her songs there was some commotion about it but it died down like nothing. I dunno...i am just rambling...please someone tell me if that made sense.
I am sure than CMILLER is understanding everything you said. He knows that everything you are saying is true. He just doesnt believe that is the way it should be
Do you think Steve Kerr intended to make a racist comment? Do you think Fuzzy was trying to? Fuzzy Zoeller was joking! He's known to be a comedian - and he made a bad joke. My whole point is words aren't racist. And you know what - when we become so intolerant that we jump on people like Steve Kerr and Fuzzy Zoeller, the next thing you know we're banning To Kill a Mockingbird and Mark Twain from school. That's the whole point of what PC is. Do you even know what Racism is? It's when you believe one group of people is superior to another morally or biologically. Think about that before calling someone a racist. Making fun of one's differences is not racism. Racism is something completely different. If Steve Kerr said that Chinese people are lacking in ethics then that could be construed as racist. But he didn't - he just called someone a chinaman. And that's just ignorant - but it's not racism. Now can it be racism? It can be when there is an intent to flex moral or biological superiority over a target group. When neo-nazis march through black neighborhoods - that's racism. When a dutch party advocates making cartoons protraying Ala as an idiot - yeah, that's racism (or religionism or whatever). If Jews are referred to being cunning or money mongreling - hey, that's racism. But if you make fun of what Jews eat - are you a racist? NOOOOO! Look - I hope they don't serve me matza ball soup at the conference. That's racist?
Point well taken. You gotta admit that the stuff targetted for the age groups between 13-24 is largely negative for Black Americans. A kid under 18 might not have heard of Ed Bradley, Sec. State Rice, or even Al Sharpton. There's a passage in Malcolm Gladwell's Blink that noted that unconscious perceptions of Black Americans were more positive after watching a sports game with Black superstars or when visualizing a great leader like MLK. It mainly dealt with the issue of psychological priming and unconscious stereotypes. The uphill battle exists, and negative associations hurt more than positive. I'd argue for a unified front upon the image of Black Americans or any minority trying to fight down stereotypes.
Irony of ironies, I head out to a local pub tonight for a night cap. Its been a long day, coworkers and bandmates alike pissing me off...I need a drink. I'm downing Smithwicks like cokes, relaxing and out of the blue, I hear some white cat sitting a couple seats down from me, in reference to Notre Dame's mascot say, "I ain't never seen no ****** leprechaun...it doesn't make any sense....". I don't know the context of the conversation, I didn't hear anything up until ****** leprechaun. I turn. He looks at me and says, "I don't mean any offense, I'm just saying black leprechauns don't make any sense....". I haven't heard the conversation. I don't know what the hell he's talking about, I just want to punch him. But instead I just turn around and keep drinking. Bar manager, white guy, comes over and says, I'd've f'n knocked the bloke out. I says if I slugged a dude every time I heard the word ****** in that bar, Chicago PD would have me locked up for life. Bar manager asks why I keep coming around. I say, "The bars around the corner from me...and I like the beer selection". And I have the choice to find another bar but odds are, there's really no where this side of town I'm going to go without hearing the word sooner or later. And I can't help the fact these kids were raised ignorant. And as hard as I clench my fists, in the end I just want to enjoy my beer in peace. And I know that they're not looking for a fight, they just don't know any better. And I know my white friends mean well when they say "I got your back" or "Well, I'd've f'd him up". But you have no idea what its like. Thats why I hate this conversation. You don't understand. You don't even have the right to ask.
I may be lots of things, but I'm not a liar. and i pride myself on being the bottom 1%. I don't care if you believe me or not, that's how I live my life. I don't care if I'm shot or stabbed for what I believe if I stand up for what I think is right. Things are really simple and really entertaining for me. I know I'm in the minority (no pun intended) and I truly don't care much for my own well being. I mostly care about the well being of everyone else. Cheers, Brock P.S. I'm a fool...
I think the more the word gets used the more desensitized people get to hearing it and the less offensive it becomes. At least I hope that is the reason. DD
