no doubt...if I got to the end of this thred and no one said anything about it I was gonna. IROC is a better parent than I (I still slip and cuss around my kids..and then follow it up with the ole' do as I say, not as I do thing), but as far as his emphasis on making sure his kids grow up without the racial baggage of our forefathers, I totally agree with him. UNfortunately, there are still plenty of idiots teaching their outmoded racial beliefs to their kids...but if you could somehow or the other get true stats on it...Id wager the results would show a very large drop in the number of actual racists in our society at this point in time. anyway...props to IROC for probably the best post in this entire thread. You're a good man, adn I wish there were more fathers like you in this world...it would be a much better place.
yeah i don't even know what the hell they are talking about anymore. i think it is newyorker just getting in a pissing contest about the definition of racism.
I said that the origin of the name for the Niger River is not determined - and was possibly from the Portuguese or the French. More likely the French. It isn't a big leap from negro to the other word if you speak Spanish. the current state of affairs is that the "n" word and the African "Niger" only have one thing in common. They have similar spellings. the fact that you relate the two with each other still doesn't make them relevent to each other. Either way, I agree that you are open for discussion and are probably more open minded than I gave you credit. I really think you should do some research in to the origins of these words and their relationships if you want to continue to use the connection to the motherland as justification for using the word. the only connection is that your ancestors are from Africa and there happens to be some names of things in Africa that are close in spelling. We should go get a brew sometime. Cheers, Brock
i guess i'm either unbelievably stupid or a racist. sorry i think the thread is a good one. oh, Mr. Slim Citrus, first post of yours i've read, you should post more.
HE normally has good posts, I just wish he wouldnt use the teal color tags..reading them while on the Dark Side is a pain. and fwiw...I didnt take the thread as asking why a non-black cant use the words in question...I took it as wondering why if the words are considered unacceptable words...why do the folks most affected by it use them ? but it is touchy subject to be sure, and I can understand why some think it isnt worth discussion.
i'm with you. i was hoping for a bit deeper debate than we're having but few want to go there. i applaud krosfyah for trying, really. i think that colloquialisms mean something. the way one talks says a lot about who you are. free speech is THE MOST IMPORTANT democratic right. far be it for me to censor anything or anyone. it is a matter of civility, as sishir said earlier. i have no problem if someone curses, i do it often enough, or says ***** or whatever, they are words. but when i hear a group of kids saying ***** this, ***** that, at the top of their lungs, i find it classless.
I'm with you on this one. I curse, and around the right friends I say ***** every so often. But if I hear either of those said in public I think of it as crass. Whether its someone saying f\/ck or ***** it's still not right to say in public.
Stereotyping and racism just aren't the same things. Here's a valid Stereotype: Americans perfer football to soccor. That's a stereotype. But you know what - it's a valid one. Get it? Are stereotypes part of racism - yes. But being anti-stereotypes is impossible. You can't do it. I dare you to remove every stereotype you have. You can't do it. By the way, the Holocaust was based on an idea of superiority - it wasn't just a stereotype.
Not officially determined but it is a SMALL leap. 1. The Latin origin of Negro = Niger. 2. Both the Portuguese and French settled parts of Africa around what is now the Niger river 3. Both Niger and Negro mean "black" in their respective languages. So while I agree there is no documented proof of the link to the origins of the name of the country of Nigeria, it is a VERY small leap. I think you are simply being argumentative at this point. That's how historians OFTEN make connections when no written documentation is avaible. It's called LOGIC. If you simply think it through, the semantic connection is very clear despite written proof.
Were you there? Have you talked to someone who was in the camps? That is the general perception of the holocaust, but as I said earlier that was not what made it possible. That is like saying there was a drunk driver who ran over someone. Then you say the guy was killed by a car and when I bring up the fact that alcahol was involved you keep saying, it was the car that killed him. I didn't know anything about what lead up to the holocaust either, until I had the opportunity to talk to the survivor who had been there, and he told me that they hold all of Europe and to an extent America as responsible as they do Hitler. To just look at the end result of the holocaust and assume it was only because of superiority isn't taking a very deep look at it. To gather a fuller understanding we have to look at the conditions that allowed that and always allow those kinds of incidents. They don't happen in a vaccum. Hitler's ideology certainly was one of superiority. But supreriority wasn't what made Hitler's plans possible. It started with stereotypes. Obviously you don't have to get rid of every stereotype, but ones based on race would be a great start. Allowing the ones that spread ignorance are dangerous, and counterproductive. People should be seen as individuals and regardless of their race.
You raise a good point and I used to think that as minorities we couldn't be racist. I've come to realize though that if you don't like racist it does you no good to act like a racist yourself and then say its OK because you're oppressed. It seems to me that if you want respect you should treat others with respect too.
What if they said it at work, while you were trying to give a presentation or present an idea, and the whole room laughed? Just fishing for an extreme situation here...
Jewish hate in Europe runs incredibly deep. I was watching a history channel special on the black plague. They were talking about how even back then, people blamed the Jewish for what was happening, and the reason there were so many Jewish people in Eastern Europe during the rise of Hitler to begin with is because the king of the region that became Poland during the Plague had a Jewish Mistress made his land a safe haven for Jewish people during that time.
You're right that continued use diminishes the potency of a term which is why I think that swear words and offensive language should be used less. If I respect the language and I'm pissed and yell "f^ck!" that means something, if I say "f^ck" all the time then that swear has less meaning. In regard to racist language that language has a meaning that should be respected, even if it is highly offensive, because to debase it also debases the history that led to it.
Care to share the stereotypes that started the halocaust that didn't not involved racial superiority?
